Curious question about fac conditions

NoIDeer

Well-Known Member
Just had my fac back after asking for it to be "opened", it has been.

One of the deer legal calibers has come back with no conditions attached at all. All other bits of the fac are in order lawful possession and ammunition with normal expanding ammunition conditions

Rhetorical question is, what can I do with this rifle that I couldn't with conditions attached.

My intention is to contact my flo for guidance.
 
If it has come back with no conditions at all so they have done as you requested, it couldn't be any opener than that what are you complaining about?
Are you now thinking of contacting your firearms department and asking them to add conditions.

Think of the basic simple principle that nothing is nothing is illegal unless there is a law against it. :lol:
 
If it has come back with no conditions at all so they have done as you requested, it couldn't be any opener than that what are you complaining about?
Are you now thinking of contacting your firearms department and asking them to add conditions.

Think of the basic simple principle that nothing is nothing is illegal unless there is a law against it. :lol:

Fair comment, but what can I do with the 243 no conditions attached that I can't with the 270 with aolq, practice & zeroing. Competitive paper punching is the only thing I can think of?

Why add unnecessary conditions?
 
Fair comment, but what can I do with the 243 no conditions attached that I can't with the 270 with aolq, practice & zeroing. Competitive paper punching is the only thing I can think of?

Why add unnecessary conditions?

Have the put down that you can buy expanding ammo for the .243?
 
Just had my fac back after asking for it to be "opened", it has been.

One of the deer legal calibers has come back with no conditions attached at all. All other bits of the fac are in order lawful possession and ammunition with normal expanding ammunition conditions

Rhetorical question is, what can I do with this rifle that I couldn't with conditions attached.

My intention is to contact my flo for guidance.


Take a pic of that part of your cert as it is will be easier for members to comment, my guess is your cert will read with the .270 and conditions with the .243 following after.

Tim.243
 
Take a pic of that part of your cert as it is will be easier for members to comment, my guess is your cert will read with the .270 and conditions with the .243 following after.

Tim.243

Sorry no photos.

Reads "The .270 rifle serial number ***** and ammunition..." no mention of 243.

Expanding ammunition condition has the phrase "in the calibres authorised by this certificate", 243 and ammunition are authorised.

Question is still what can I do with the 243 that I can't with the 270?
 
If you are concerned about it and the same use applies to both rifles, then maybe ask your FLD to use the single all embracing condition as advised in Appendix 3 of the HO Guidance, "The firearms and ammunition....................."
 
Sorry no photos.

Reads "The .270 rifle serial number ***** and ammunition..." no mention of 243.

Expanding ammunition condition has the phrase "in the calibres authorised by this certificate", 243 and ammunition are authorised.

Question is still what can I do with the 243 that I can't with the 270?

I guess as it can only be a guess as we can only see what you type...

As expanding is for quarry species then it will mention " Lawful Authority to Shoot
(a) the lawful shooting of deer
(b) the shooting of vermin......etc

With the guidelines then .243 would not be conditioned for Boar however that is a ****ing match for a thread on its own.

In a nut shell it is like trying to guess what colour you truck is with out seeing it...

Well done on getting the ticket opened up but ring your firearms dept up and ask as it will be quicker.


Tim.243
 
I guess as it can only be a guess as we can only see what you type...

As expanding is for quarry species then it will mention " Lawful Authority to Shoot
(a) the lawful shooting of deer
(b) the shooting of vermin......etc

With the guidelines then .243 would not be conditioned for Boar however that is a ****ing match for a thread on its own.

In a nut shell it is like trying to guess what colour you truck is with out seeing it...

Well done on getting the ticket opened up but ring your firearms dept up and ask as it will be quicker.


Tim.243

Not sure what you are trying to get at I am well chuffed with my cert being opened and have no problem with it as it is. I am just curious what anyone could lawfully do with a rifle that has no conditions attached.
My previous closed ticket did have both rifles in the same condition.
 
Not sure what you are trying to get at I am well chuffed with my cert being opened and have no problem with it as it is. I am just curious what anyone could lawfully do with a rifle that has no conditions attached.
My previous closed ticket did have both rifles in the same condition.


anything lawful.....

sounds more like they have forgotten to add the ,243 or remove the .270 to the front section that details what YOU THE SHOOTER are authorised to do

I.E.
The holder of this certificate may possess, purchase or acquire expanding ammo, or the missiles for such ammunition, in calibres authorised by this cert for use in connection with one or more of the following
a) the lawful shooting of deer
b) the shooting of vermin or in connection with the management of any estate
c) the humane killing of animals
d) the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans

The Firearms and ammo shall be used only for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim

The firearms and ammo shall be used for the shooting of all lawful quarry and for zeroing and practice on ranges and ladn over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot
 
Not sure what you are trying to get at I am well chuffed with my cert being opened and have no problem with it as it is. I am just curious what anyone could lawfully do with a rifle that has no conditions attached.
My previous closed ticket did have both rifles in the same condition.

Not getting at you for one bit....

Just it is hard to give you an answer with very little to go on...

I have sent a number of people on here my template letters to help them get there ticket opened up, as people struggle with the wording...

I did say well done on getting your cert opened up...

Hope when you find the right answer you will post it up to pass on.

Tim.243
 
anything lawful.....

sounds more like they have forgotten to add the ,243 or remove the .270 to the front section that details what YOU THE SHOOTER are authorised to do

I.E.
The holder of this certificate may possess, purchase or acquire expanding ammo, or the missiles for such ammunition, in calibres authorised by this cert for use in connection with one or more of the following
a) the lawful shooting of deer
b) the shooting of vermin or in connection with the management of any estate
c) the humane killing of animals
d) the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans

The Firearms and ammo shall be used only for target shooting on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim

The firearms and ammo shall be used for the shooting of all lawful quarry and for zeroing and practice on ranges and ladn over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot

Just spoken with FLD, she thanked me for pointing out their mistake and will issue a corrected certificate. Conditions as Bewshers post except target.
Double bonus I did ask for increased ammunition holding as I am now reloading which wasn't on new cert. I asked her about this and she said it shouldn't be a problem. Happy days!
 
Just spoken with FLD, she thanked me for pointing out their mistake and will issue a corrected certificate. Conditions as Bewshers post except target.
Double bonus I did ask for increased ammunition holding as I am now reloading which wasn't on new cert. I asked her about this and she said it shouldn't be a problem. Happy days!

These are the standard Conditions you should have had on your FAC.

Also, 'except target' isn't the ommission you infer. It's an 'Either/Or' ... either you're a 'sporting' Or a 'target' shooter. If the former applies you can shoot on Approved ranges (without an express Condition), but target shooters can ONLY shoot on these ranges.
 
You preferably need to see the word 'unrestricted' amongst the conditions somewhere.
 
These are the standard Conditions you should have had on your FAC.

Also, 'except target' isn't the ommission you infer. It's an 'Either/Or' ... either you're a 'sporting' Or a 'target' shooter. If the former applies you can shoot on Approved ranges (without an express Condition), but target shooters can ONLY shoot on these ranges.



No its not

your sporting provision does not allow you to shoot in competitions specifically designed for target shooters (non expanding) on
You would be in breach of your conditions of "and for zeroing and practice on ranges "


If you wish to be a member of a target shooting club and participate in club comps you need "Target" added

the only grey area in this is "Stalkers Competitions" or DSC1 test practice
this is Practice and related and can be argued as such

2+10 at 600yds is hardly applicable
 
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No its not your sporting provision does not allow you to shoot in competitions specifically designed for target shooters (non expanding) on You would be in breach of your conditions of "and for zeroing and practice on ranges " If you wish to be a member of a target shooting club and participate in club comps you need "Target" added the only grey area in this is "Stalkers Competitions" or DSC1 test practice this is Practice and related and can be argued as such 2+10 at 600yds is hardly applicable
No-one mentioned 'Competitions'. The restriction on the use of expanding ammunition for this is well known. It's been done to death on here. Having a superfluous target shooting Condition added will get you nowhere. That restriction would still apply, regardless.
 
No-one mentioned 'Competitions'. The restriction on the use of expanding ammunition for this is well known. It's been done to death on here. Having a superfluous target shooting Condition added will get you nowhere. That restriction would still apply, regardless.


you said it was "either/or" "either you're a 'sporting' Or a 'target' shooter. "

the difference between specific range orders prohibiting the use of controlled-expanding/"non target" ammunition on safety grounds
and....
the condition/restriction of a FAC holder who wants to shoot competitively in a club/on a range outside of "zeroing and practice".....

....are not mutually exclusive.

that quote I added is directly off my FAC.
No target club will allow a member to regularly shoot a target discipline or compete outside of maybe a guest day without a "Target condition"
I have both quarry and target for that very reason.

"Target" is (part of) your good reason and is related to licensing not range safety
 
Fair comment, but what can I do with the 243 no conditions attached that I can't with the 270 with aolq, practice & zeroing. Competitive paper punching is the only thing I can think of?

Why add unnecessary conditions?

Why could you not do competitive paper punching? It's land over which you have permission to shoot (my condition specifies "ranges", though I understand that is not entirely the norm). Any shooting you do could be classed as practice. As long as you aren't using expanding ammunition for competitions I don't see an issue.
 
No its not

your sporting provision does not allow you to shoot in competitions specifically designed for target shooters (non expanding) on
You would be in breach of your conditions of "and for zeroing and practice on ranges "


If you wish to be a member of a target shooting club and participate in club comps you need "Target" added

the only grey area in this is "Stalkers Competitions" or DSC1 test practice
this is Practice and related and can be argued as such

2+10 at 600yds is hardly applicable

Two things here, I think.

First is whether there's any intention to prevent folk with a sporting conditions, e.g. '...used for shooting named quarry and AOLQ, and zeroing over land....' from shooting on 'proper' ranges for whatever purpose - and it seems clear, in the opinion of BASC at least, that there is not.
The argument is that the discretionary condition is describing an activity that is allowed (i.e. shooting quarry where the holder has permission), not prohibiting anything else lawful that the holder might wish to do (like go and shoot at a club).

Second is the use of S5 ammuntion - which is pretty clear if you read the S5 authority. There's nothing there forbidding its use in competitions, as long as such use can be justified as 'in connection with' one of the permitted activities. I'd concur that shooting 10+2 at 600yds would be unlikely to tick that box - but competitions or training intended for stalkers, using sporting rifles at at targets/distances concordant with stalking, certainly would.
I think the idea that S5 ammunition is not allowed to be used in competitions is based on a mistaken back-extrapolation from the fact that those who shoot only targets are not granted S5 authority - becuse they don't need it.

We shouldn't make life harder for ourselves than the law (or indeed the Home Office) intend.
 
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I have several of my rifles listed on my ticket for AOLQ and target shooting. Just use expanding on live quarry and FMJ in competitions.
 
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