223 or 22-250 fast twist

stephentri

Well-Known Member
#1
hi I have a rem700 in 223 thinking of getting it rebarreled with a fast twist so I can shoot 75grain amax . I can also get the bolt changed and get it made into a 22-250 also with a fast twist to shoot the same bullet,what iam looking for is a rifle that can shoot crows and small vermin out to 600 yards.if any of you have got a rifle like this please let me know if it is any advantage going for the 22-250 over the 223 .
 

timbeech

Well-Known Member
#2
hi I have a rem700 in 223 thinking of getting it rebarreled with a fast twist so I can shoot 75grain amax . I can also get the bolt changed and get it made into a 22-250 also with a fast twist to shoot the same bullet,what iam looking for is a rifle that can shoot crows and small vermin out to 600 yards.if any of you have got a rifle like this please let me know if it is any advantage going for the 22-250 over the 223 .
Stick with .223 as you have all the cases etc. I guess this is only good advice if you reload. 22-250 cases are really expensive.

When my .223 is ready for rebarrelled I'm going .20cal probably 20practical, still 223 cases but 20 cal heads fast and flat.
 

Whitebeard

Well-Known Member
#3
It really is a no contest situation IMO, if you are not bothered about the economies involved then a fast twist 22-250 is the way to go.
A 75 grain Amax launched a few hundred feet per second faster from the 22-250 case is going to be flatter shooting, buck the wind better and reach out further then from a 223 case.
However if you are going to the trouble of having your Remmy re-barreled then why not go the whole hog and have it chambered in 22-250 Ackley Improved fast twist:thumb:

Ian.
 

sir-slots-alot

Well-Known Member
#4
hi I have a rem700 in 223 thinking of getting it rebarreled with a fast twist so I can shoot 75grain amax . I can also get the bolt changed and get it made into a 22-250 also with a fast twist to shoot the same bullet,what iam looking for is a rifle that can shoot crows and small vermin out to 600 yards.if any of you have got a rifle like this please let me know if it is any advantage going for the 22-250 over the 223 .
Hi Stephen, I have had a couple of 223 Tikka super varmints with 8 twists and done a lot of long range shooting with 75 grn Amax. First thing to say is the 75 and 80 grn Amax bullets are the pill to use for vermin shooting - other match bullets wont expand so don't bother... Berger's and SMKs are drillers so don't waste your money.


The 223 is a great little cal , and shots out to 600 are achievable with practice - I found the accuracy was best with the 75 grn Amax when zipping along at around 2800 - 2850 fps in the both my 24 inch 223 Tikka's .

One downside of this cal ( certainly in Tikka rifles) is the loaded 75 grn Ammo wont fit in the mag , therefore it is single feed only. But there are a lot of positives for the 223 too

Exceptionally long barrel life - low powder usage - low recoil - ease to get hold of reloading stuff (Except bullets of course)

Another cal to consider is 223 Ackley - this slots in somewhere in between the 223 and the 22.250 and has all of the 223 attributes. But gives about 100 fps faster at the expense of fire forming. I have never had one myself - but I'm sure Steve ( AKA 24hrSniper) will be along soon.


The 22.250 is a different animal altogether and in a different league than the 223 .. It has more power at 200 yrds than the 223 has at the muzzle and is a genuine 1000 yrds calibre. However ranges up to 700 yrds are where it shines. My rifle launches 75 grn Amax at 3340 + fps without pressure signs

Its a perfect long range combination when you marry the power of 22.250 with big 22 bullets with a BC of 0.435 and 0.475 for the for the 75 grn and 80 grn Amax respectively.

The performance comes at a price - expect a round 1500 rounds from a tube. Its more thirsty - and noisy , but for varmint shooting , I haven't used anything that's as good. Its also worth mentioning that a tight twist 22.250 will also still shoot 55 / 60 grn varmint bullets with devastating accuracy.

If you do go 22.250 - I would consider selling your existing rifle and not go through the considerable palaver of opening the bolt and sorting the feeding issues . Probably best just buying a good 22.250 or 243 and rebarrel.

ATB
Alan


My 22.250 rifle with LW 8" barrel.

 
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dropmdead

Well-Known Member
#5

stephentri

Well-Known Member
#6
If you are looking for a cheap to run caliber, that is low recoil and comes in to its own at distance is the 6BR. 29-30 grains of powder and a 105gr a -max and you are sorted. Expect 3k+ round count compared to the 22-250 never mind the 22-250 AI. ...
The lapua brass is cheaper for the 6BR compared to the 22-250 too...

Look up AccurateShooter.com 6mmBR.com -- Best Guide to Precision Shooting and Precision Rifle Accuracy for some reading on your options. .....
I looked at 6mm but in n.ireland the police won't give you anything bigger than .224 cal for vermin control. I have a 6.5 x55 for deer stalking but not aloud to shoot vermin with it. I like to idea of the 22-250 but did not realise how short the barrel life would be. If I go for the .223 what would recommend for barrel length and would I need to get the chamber reamed to suite the longer bullets.
 

247sniper

Well-Known Member
#7
Another cal to consider is 223 Ackley - this slots in somewhere in between the 223 and the 22.250 and has all of the 223 attributes. But gives about 100 fps faster at the expense of fire forming. I have never had one myself - but I'm sure Steve ( AKA 24hrSniper) will be along soon. [QUOTE said:
Here I am Alan! lol

As Sir-slots-alot says, I have a .223 Ackley with a 1/7 twist 26 inch tube that I got built to shoot the heavy high BC .224 cal bullets. I purchased loads at the time of the 75 and 80 grain Amaxs bullets in preparation, hoping that the rifle barrel would like and prefer the 80' as they have a good bit higher BC and would be my preferred choice of long range bullet. As it happened the barrel loves the 80's so i never even bothered with the 75's.

What I was worried about at first was the fire-forming, and thought what a waste of 200 brand new Lapua cases, bullets and powder, however i was assured that i would be amazed at the performance of a fire-forming load, and I was. I took me a a couple of hours to get my fire-forming sorted then out smashing gongs out to 600 yards, realy rally shocked how good these bullets are in the wind, you can predict your calculations if you know what you are doing. My first rabbit was with a fire-forming load at 582 yards, so was the next two at 578 and 575 yatrds!

Once i had a few fire-formed cases I started my proper load development, again I was shocked at how accurate the fire-formed loads were, I think my worst charge weight group was 0.5MOA at worst!

Anyway settleed on a load that produced bug hole groups at 200 yards and also had a very low exstream spread etc, i could go into exstream detail about my load development but don't want to bore you with it if its not what you are after.

I can only echo what Sir-Slot-Alot says, the .22-250 with 75/80 Amax would be an awesome combination for long range, you just have to think about how many shots you want to shoot and how many shots you want out of the rifle before it needs re-barreling, if 1500 shots does not both you the go for a fast twist 250, or give the .223 Ackley a think, 80 gran Amax at 2960ftps with only 25 grains of powder and great barrel life appealed to me. Even the standard .223 would be good, just not the legs of the other two mentioned, certainly not of the 250.

Hope this help ?

Steve
 

247sniper

Well-Known Member
#8
For long heavy weight bullets id suggest looking at a slightly longer tube around 25" and a powder like N140 as it is slower burning then the commonly used N133 etc, this should help with launching heavier bullets faster which is what you want.

Saying that I Have spoke to people that shot 20" barrel Tikka with 75 Amax out to 1000 with no problems.
 

Whitebeard

Well-Known Member
#9
Now for a spanner in the works, how about a fast twist 22BR? I shoot a 1:12 twist 22BR with 55g bullets and its awesome out to 525yds (not tried it any further) and will hold 0.3 MOA @ 500yds for five shots.
Not quite as fast, or the barrel burner of the 22-250 but faster then the 223 to notice the difference and incredibley consistant accuracy.
Its a viable option if you are re-barreling as set up costs would be very similar for the 22-250 or 223AI.

Ian.
 
#10
I have owned two tight twist 22.250's and two 6mmbrs with tight twist custom barrels fitted.
The 6BR is a great cal - deadly accurate - but ballistically is way down on the 22.250 firing a big Amax.

For example - if you compare some calibre options at at 600 yrds ( all subjected to a 10 mph cross wind )

22.250 - 80 Amax (BC 0.470) . @ 3280 fps - Drop - 59.7. inches - Drift 23.2 Inches
6mmbr - 105 Amax (BC 0.500)
@ 2900 fps - Drop - 78.2 inches - Drift 26.7 Inches

243 AI - 105 Amax (BC 0.500) @ 3150 fps - Drop - 64.2 inches - Drift 23.2 Inches
223 AI - 80 Amax (BC 0.470) . @ 2960 fps - Drop - 76.5. inches - Drift 27.3 Inches


Compared to the 22.250 - the 6br actually drops over 18 inches more and is blown an extra 3 inches off course over the same distance (600 yrds). That's massive - it also assumes that the 6BR can reach 2900fps with a 105 Amax which neither of mine could.

The 22.250 is actually more comparable to a 243 AI shooting a 105 Amax - but uses less powder and has less recoils than a 6BR. The 6BR bullet drop at 600 yrds is in fact slightly more than that of the 223 IA - but slightly better on windage.

While its true Lapua 22.250 cases can be expensive - I have just paid £85 for some - That's about a £10 more than I paid for 6BR brass. But there is also the option of getting other makes of quality brass such as Hornady - Sako and federal to name a few for considerably less.

As for sweeter shooting - the 22.250 recoils less than the 6 BR using the figures above ( assuming both rifles weigh the same) , here's how the different calibres compare going from mildest to most recoil.

1 - 223 AI - recoil energy in (ft/lbs) = 3.00
2 - 22.250 - recoil energy in (ft/lbs) = 4.28
3 - 6mmbr - recoil energy in (ft/lbs) = 4.76
4 - 243 AI - recoil energy in (ft/lbs) = 6.46

A 6BR will indeed give more barrel life than a 22.250 and will use about 6 grn of powder less per shot.
just like the 223 AI will use about 5 grns less than the 6 BR and will last a couple of thousand more.


Good luck with your choice

ATB
Alan.
 
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stephentri

Well-Known Member
#11
as i said in n.ireland we cant get 6mm for vermin control so i have to stay with .224 cal what are your views on 22BR is it a option as this still shoots a .224 bullet

thanks
stephen
 
#12
22.250 - the AI version if you really want to burn it. No question in my mind in its ability over a 223 at longer range. I don't think the barrel wear challenge is as much of an issue as some suggest. I do agree you're better buying a 22.250 straight out - unless you have a particular sentimental connection with the rifle you currently have.
 
#14
A 6mmbr enough said
The OP has stated twice that he cant shoot any 6mm at vermin due the local restrictions. :doh:

Back on track - White beards suggestion of a tight twist 22 BR is worth some thought,
Superbly accurate with more barrel life than the 22.250. Velocities around 3150 - 3250 fps with 75 grn Amax and a longish tube.

Regarding barrel life on the 22.250 - I have read on the US varminters forum to expect about 1500 rounds of best accuracy shots, before groups open up a little ....but TBH they tend to have many more shots in succession on the dog towns than we do.. So barrel life will have a lot to do with , not only how many shots you have - but how you shoot it.

From my own experience , my previous 22.250 rifle had over 1300 rounds through it and still bug holed.

When the groups open up in my current 22.250 rifle , I plan on re-throating the barrel - this can be done relatively cheaply and will extend the barrel life considerably.

Accuracy is exceptional in the 22.250 - This is a 3 shots on a steel gong at 450 yrds ( witnessed by two people )




ATB
Alan
 
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jay 22

Well-Known Member
#15
The OP has stated twice that he cant shoot any 6mm at vermin due the local restrictions. :doh:

Back on track - White beards suggestion of a tight twist 22 BR is worth some thought,
Superbly accurate with more barrel life than the 22.250. Velocities around 3150 - 3250 fps with 75 grn Amax and a longish tube.

Regarding barrel life on the 22.250 - I have read on the US varminters forum to expect about 1500 rounds of best accuracy shots, before groups open up a little ....but TBH they tend to have many more shots in succession on the dog towns than we do.. So barrel life will have a lot to do with , not only how many shots you have - but how you shoot it.

From my own experience , my previous 22.250 rifle had over 1300 rounds through it and still bug holed.

When the groups open up in my current 22.250 rifle , I plan on re-throating the barrel - this can be done relatively cheaply and will extend the barrel life considerably.

Accuracy is exceptional in the 22.250 - This is a 3 shots on a steel gong at 450 yrds ( witnessed by two people )




ATB
Alan
great going alan. i forgot you where having another 22/250 fast twist built. what spec is it. tikka action ?
 

247sniper

Well-Known Member
#18
Id say around 25 inch barrel and you should get 2850-2900ftps. I know of a guy who claims his .223 that swears blind they are getting 3030 ftps from their 25 inch tube, im not so sure though. ?

2850 - 2900 should be somewhere about right.
 

stephentri

Well-Known Member
#19
Id say around 25 inch barrel and you should get 2850-2900ftps. I know of a guy who claims his .223 that swears blind they are getting 3030 ftps from their 25 inch tube, im not so sure though. ?

2850 - 2900 should be somewhere about right.
Thanks for that would you have any reloading data for that
 

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