.223 rifle for fox.

[BigFrank]

Back down the rabbit hole!! After years of re homing ex battery hens without problems I have lost 8 this year. Taken 2 foxes in the past few weeks…both at night with NV. Variation granted for 22-250 for day time foxing…see previous post. Got a very good offer for my Sako s491 .223..night foxing rifle. Sold it today. Now looking for a..preferably…new .223 for night foxing. Choices from £500 (Winchester) to £2000 (Schultz & Larsen) on guntrader.
I want 24 or 22” barrel…not Heavy!..arthritic wrist! Do some target shooting too..hence longer barrel, improved velocity.
i shoot 53gr V Max on 22gr N130 and want to stay around that bullet weight or lighter…..so….1:10 to 1:14 twist rate. Unless you know better.
The Sauer 100 ticks the boxes….need to check the weight of the Sauer stainless XTA.
is there anything else I should be considering?? Plan B is a used Sako.
I’m at the bottom of a steep learning curve here as I have never bought a brand new rifle before…endless choices!!….any help and advice appreciated. Thanks, Frank.

 

[Jack3]

I have the Sauer 100 in 6.5CM. Cracking rifle, extremely well made and excellent value!

 

[BigFrank]

I have the Sauer 100 in 6.5CM. Cracking rifle, extremely well made and excellent value!

I was recommended the Sauer by a Trade Member on here…He said “
101 came here May 2013. First 'budget' non-switch-barrel Sauer. Excellent rifle. Highly accurate. Excellent magazine and trigger, semi-quirky safety catch. Bolt engages into barrel.
100, out during 2018. Cheaper version of 101. Bolt locks into receiver, same as Tikka, Sako, Howa, Remington, Bergara, and indeed most rifles... You and I will never tell the difference. Same trigger, same magazine, more simplistic safety catch [ better, I feel ]. Same huge accuracy. 100 was intended to have non-adjustable basic trigger but that didn't pan out, it has the great 101 unit. 100 has 10-year-warranty, 101 the same now [ was 5 years formerly ].
101 is too much money. A current proper import is £2000 or so, and for that you should buy a new Schultz and Larsen and have some change in your pocket. 2.5 steps higher up the ladder.
The best buy is the 100 XTA; stainless steel action and barrel, soft-touch stock [ really nice ], and adjustable comb, very useful. £1400.”

 

[BigFrank]

I have the Sauer 100 in 6.5CM. Cracking rifle, extremely well made and excellent value!

I was recommended the Sauer by a Trade Member on here…He said “
101 came here May 2013. First 'budget' non-switch-barrel Sauer. Excellent rifle. Highly accurate. Excellent magazine and trigger, semi-quirky safety catch. Bolt engages into barrel.
100, out during 2018. Cheaper version of 101. Bolt locks into receiver, same as Tikka, Sako, Howa, Remington, Bergara, and indeed most rifles... You and I will never tell the difference. Same trigger, same magazine, more simplistic safety catch [ better, I feel ]. Same huge accuracy. 100 was intended to have non-adjustable basic trigger but that didn't pan out, it has the great 101 unit. 100 has 10-year-warranty, 101 the same now [ was 5 years formerly ].
101 is too much money. A current proper import is £2000 or so, and for that you should buy a new Schultz and Larsen and have some change in your pocket. 2.5 steps higher up the ladder.
The best buy is the 100 XTA; stainless steel action and barrel, soft-touch stock [ really nice ], and adjustable comb, very useful. £1400.”

 

[The Singing Stalker]

Well, like all rifles, the basics.
Trigger weight. Are you a delicate little flower who needs a light trigger or are you captain caveman? If you are target shooting then I would guess a light trigger.
with the lead ban coming consider a barrel that will handle copper, Do you need to futureproof yourself.
Do you want to be able to unload the rifle without having to go live? Safety.
And of course, we can all talk about this rifle and that rifle, but you have to consider fit. Are you a bit weird like me so off the shelf doesn’t work or are you joe almost normal? Rifle fit is very important in my mind.

 

[BigFrank]

Well, like all rifles, the basics.
Trigger weight. Are you a delicate little flower who needs a light trigger or are you captain caveman? If you are target shooting then I would guess a light trigger.
with the lead ban coming consider a barrel that will handle copper, Do you need to futureproof yourself.
Do you want to be able to unload the rifle without having to go live? Safety.
And of course, we can all talk about this rifle and that rifle, but you have to consider fit. Are you a bit weird like me so off the shelf doesn’t work or are you joe almost normal? Rifle fit is very important in my mind.

Trigger pull?….if it ain’t light it ain’t right!

 

[Eddie P]

I think you've got some conflict with specs / purpose. Long barrel for target shooting and slow twist for light bullets.
I'd go for a faster twist and find a bullet to suit if I were you.

 

[User00044]

Depending on your style of night time shooting , have you considered a tripod such as the BOG? It would certainly take the weight off those wrists . Obviously not the ideal if you walk and stalk .

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Fast twist and 53g Vmax is probably a non issue. I own two Sauer 202’s, I would have a 100/101, if I was going for a for a fixed barrel. Partly because it feels similar to the 202.
A CZ527 (if you can still find a new one) is another option I can recommend from personal experience.
There’s probably not much on the market that won’t do the job. Most is down to personal preference. I am a great believer in rifle fit, as with a shotgun it affects the end result.

 

[BigFrank]

Thanks all. I have settled on the CZ600 Lux .223 1:9 twist, 20” barrel and weighs 7lbs.

 

[BigFrank]

I think you've got some conflict with specs / purpose. Long barrel for target shooting and slow twist for light bullets.
I'd go for a faster twist and find a bullet to suit if I were you.

Thanks..you are right. It’s for my night foxing…I’ll work out a load that works.

 

[plumber01]

depending upon how you shoot, you could do worse than get a reasonable tripod, and a saddle clamp, as long as you shoot from a set place
Drop the rifle into the saddle, and all the weight is taken by the bipod, i have a 26inch heavy barrel 223 Remington , and with sight and bits almost certainly itis about 12lbs. sitting on a tripod, i can sit on a fold up stool, and the rifle resting in the tripod you also can hold the rifle very steady.
For what its worth, I tend to use a bait ( either a pre shot rabbit wrapped up in chicken wire, or a half opened can of cat food with a large steel pin holding it down into the ground) I then put a white empty feed bucket about 10 yards from the bait, and using a rangefinder, I put another bucket 150 yards away, from the place I want to take the shot from.( this makes it very easy to find it the dark without using lights) I do all this at several sights in the area in daylight. When I come back at night I know exactly where i need to set up, and exactly where to look, and having the rifle sighted at 150, and shooting from a bipod, it is like cheating ! good luck

 

[BigFrank]

depending upon how you shoot, you could do worse than get a reasonable tripod, and a saddle clamp, as long as you shoot from a set place
Drop the rifle into the saddle, and all the weight is taken by the bipod, i have a 26inch heavy barrel 223 Remington , and with sight and bits almost certainly itis about 12lbs. sitting on a tripod, i can sit on a fold up stool, and the rifle resting in the tripod you also can hold the rifle very steady.
For what its worth, I tend to use a bait ( either a pre shot rabbit wrapped up in chicken wire, or a half opened can of cat food with a large steel pin holding it down into the ground) I then put a white empty feed bucket about 10 yards from the bait, and using a rangefinder, I put another bucket 150 yards away, from the place I want to take the shot from.( this makes it very easy to find it the dark without using lights) I do all this at several sights in the area in daylight. When I come back at night I know exactly where i need to set up, and exactly where to look, and having the rifle sighted at 150, and shooting from a bipod, it is like cheating ! good luck

Thanks for taking the time to reply…that’s great advice about bait and buckets..I’ve been using the fox pro…not worked well. Cheers, Frank

 

[MarinePMI]

depending upon how you shoot, you could do worse than get a reasonable tripod, and a saddle clamp, as long as you shoot from a set place
Drop the rifle into the saddle, and all the weight is taken by the bipod, i have a 26inch heavy barrel 223 Remington , and with sight and bits almost certainly itis about 12lbs. sitting on a tripod, i can sit on a fold up stool, and the rifle resting in the tripod you also can hold the rifle very steady.
For what its worth, I tend to use a bait ( either a pre shot rabbit wrapped up in chicken wire, or a half opened can of cat food with a large steel pin holding it down into the ground) I then put a white empty feed bucket about 10 yards from the bait, and using a rangefinder, I put another bucket 150 yards away, from the place I want to take the shot from.( this makes it very easy to find it the dark without using lights) I do all this at several sights in the area in daylight. When I come back at night I know exactly where i need to set up, and exactly where to look, and having the rifle sighted at 150, and shooting from a bipod, it is like cheating ! good luck

For the tripod, I'd suggest looking into a tac table of some type. These work better IME for hunting, since the rifle isn't clamped into anything, and the flat table (with a bag or folded towel on top), allows a shooter to pivot the rifle around quickly and quietly, to get on target. Personally, I use a Abel Table, which allows attaching things if needed (like a Kestrel). With the cut outs along the long axis side walls, it also makes for a nice fit for binos when glassing.

ABEL TABLE GEN2

 

[BigFrank]

For the tripod, I'd suggest looking into a tac table of some type. These work better IME for hunting, since the rifle isn't clamped into anything, and the flat table (with a bag or folded towel on top), allows a shooter to pivot the rifle around quickly and quietly, to get on target. Personally, I use a Abel Table, which allows attaching things if needed (like a Kestrel). With the cut outs along the long axis side walls, it also makes for a nice fit for binos when glassing.

ABEL TABLE GEN2

Ha..I’m out of my comfort zone completely off to search for tac table! A day we don’t learn something is a day wasted!

 

[MarinePMI]

Ha..I’m out of my comfort zone completely off to search for tac table! A day we don’t learn something is a day wasted!

A homemade version can easily be assembled from a cheap ARCA camera attachment, fastened to a square piece of plywood. It's not as rigid/stiff, but it would work fine for hunting (it just might be a little heavier). I also know that some are 3D printing versions of a tac table, which could be an easy way to get one as well (if you know someone with a 3D printer). May even be some free 3D files out there to download...

 

[Pete6.5]

I'm sure if someone works out the drops to 500 yards the difference between 53 or 75grains would not be worth worrying about so just get 75 grain bullets and get on with the job with out the faffing about of changing. I would hate to think how many foxes have been shot with a 243 shooting a 75grain bullet but it just works.