I used to use CCI Stingers to get extra range from my Annie as they are accurate enough for chest shots at 100m with groups around 1.5 inches. They are a 32gr copper plated hollow point and run just below 1650fps at the muzzle. the trajectory is pretty flat (for a .22lr) compared with the RWS subs I use. Only stopped using stingers as I got a .22-250 for longer range. The only real problem with using copper jacketed and high velocity rounds was that it stripped the lubricant out of the barrel so the first 3-4 shots with subs were not accurate. Best, J
.22LR standard/high velocity
- Thread starter Mungo
- Start date
Germany is the closest importation point, IIRC~Muir
- "Alas poor Yorric!" - Lapua Speed Ace has been out of production for a good few years now, I bought the last stock in the UK about 6 or so years ago. SK HV is very similar which is not surprising because SK made the Lapua ammo and put it in a Lapua box.Back to the OP's question. What many will not realise is the effect passing through the speed of sound has on the accuracy of a bullet.
When the velocity of a rifle bullet fired at supersonic muzzle velocity approaches the speed of sound it enters the transonic region, that is the region between supersonic flight and subsonic flight. In the transonic region the centre of pressure shifts forward as the bullet slows down. Unless the bullet is spinning fast enough (i.e. the twist rate in the barrel is fast enough to make sure it is still rotating fast enough to stabilise it) that shift affects the dynamic stability of the bullet.
What often then happens is that the bullet starts to yaw as it passes through the transonic region. Some bullets will settle down once they come through this region, others will not. Those that don't will often tumble end over end and perhaps never reach the target - you can tell if the bullet is yawing because holes in a paper target will not be round but slightly oval or in extreme cases you will see a hole the same shape as the bullet where it has gone through sideways!
Even if the bullet has sufficient stability to be able to fly through the transonic region and remain pointing forward, it is still affected. The erratic and sudden centre of pressure shift and (temporary) decrease in stability can cause significant dispersion and hence large groups at longer distances.
For this reason you would be better sticking to your proven subsonic bullet and spending some time out in the field with some paper targets to allow you to work out the effects of gravity and wind on shot placement at longer distances.
I regularly shoot rabbits in the horse paddock at 120-140 yards. I use a range finder on them and dial the elevation required into the scope (target turret). It is quite unnerving at first as there is a lifetime of delay between firing the shot, seeing the rabbit react in the scope and then hearing the thud of the strike!
For those interested, the rifle is a Finnfire Varmint, the scope a Leupold 6-20x50 LRT and the ammo Eley sub-sonic hollow point.
Happy (rabbit) hunting!
I haven't been able to prove pronounced inaccuracy from trans-sonic shift in .22LR, mostly due to shooting out doors where any wind has an effect on the bullet. The standard form 40 grain RN 22LR bullet has an actual (calculated) BC of .082 in my region at 80 degrees F. (CCI, Aguila and Winchester all have about the same BC despite slight differences in form) At 1240 fps muzzle velocity the bullet is already at 930 fps when it hits the 100M mark. Somewhere in flight that shift occurred but it had small effect on the target, with many LOT's of these munitions delivering MOA and better when the wind-gods allow.
Other bullets are indeed unstable but most of the hyper velocity (short, light) bullets are not that stable leaving the muzzle. One maker recently (in the last 5 years) made a slight change to the bullet of their hyper velocity round to shift the center of gravity forward in an attempt to cure the yaw (and exaggerated precession that came from it) that was effecting accuracy at all ranges. My tests showed the results to be inconclusive with dispersion at 100M no different.
The quality of the high velocity ammo has a lot to bear on it's accuracy. I had one of the companies on this side of the world make a special 22 LR round for me in 2004. It had an Eley-type HP as found in the sub-sonic rounds, rolled in the copper colored wax (it's not copper jacket) and loaded to 1300 fps. It is the most accurate high velocity ammo I have ever shot. One cool desert morning I shot a few sub one inch groups at 130 yards from my old Brno with the 4X Leupold on top. It's hard to top that.
Too bad about the Speed Ace being dropped.~Muir
Other bullets are indeed unstable but most of the hyper velocity (short, light) bullets are not that stable leaving the muzzle. One maker recently (in the last 5 years) made a slight change to the bullet of their hyper velocity round to shift the center of gravity forward in an attempt to cure the yaw (and exaggerated precession that came from it) that was effecting accuracy at all ranges. My tests showed the results to be inconclusive with dispersion at 100M no different.
The quality of the high velocity ammo has a lot to bear on it's accuracy. I had one of the companies on this side of the world make a special 22 LR round for me in 2004. It had an Eley-type HP as found in the sub-sonic rounds, rolled in the copper colored wax (it's not copper jacket) and loaded to 1300 fps. It is the most accurate high velocity ammo I have ever shot. One cool desert morning I shot a few sub one inch groups at 130 yards from my old Brno with the 4X Leupold on top. It's hard to top that.
Too bad about the Speed Ace being dropped.~Muir
Pity about Speed Ace being dropped - I had a couple of bricks of them & have just finished shooting them this last year.
Why do manufacturers / marketeers change what works even if it ain't broken!!!!
--- Good job I prefer subsonics!
Ian
Why do manufacturers / marketeers change what works even if it ain't broken!!!!
--- Good job I prefer subsonics!
Ian
Whoa there! This is a GOLF COURSE? So the yardage from any point on it to another will be known to the nearest five yards I would think.
Those who play golf would agree? Buy a green map and mark the yardage off. This is not uncharted wilderness but a golf course mapped, measured and distanced out to the nearest yard I would guess.
Those who play golf would agree? Buy a green map and mark the yardage off. This is not uncharted wilderness but a golf course mapped, measured and distanced out to the nearest yard I would guess.
Have you tried a full clean back to bare metal as this often works . Some bullet lubes dont mix and some copper washed bullets need the barrel to have a clean start and a bit on fresh wax copper wash build up . I use velocitors a lot in my CZ 452 and have had to clean back to metal and re- run the bore with a few .
Oh wow - OLD thread resurrection! 10 years!
I stopped doing bunnies on golf courses 8 years ago.
Still shoot Velocitors. Work fine with the moderator off. But I probably only use the .22 a handful of times a year now.
This brings back memories of a by-gone era before I had a kid, when I had more spare time than I knew what to do with, and had only just started shooting more than 4 deer a year.
And had a 34” waist…
dunno popped up on my feed ? ! IT is a mystery to us older guys LOL
There have been a couple zombie thread resurrections recently.
I think the oldest I’ve seen was from 2006 or 2007. OP probably long since dead!
Squirrelbasher
Well-Known Member
Westlander were importing Aguila into Britain, I bought some a few years ago. Don’t know if they still do though?
Cogswell & Harrison
Well-Known Member
I believe they still do. One of my clubs deal with them and I often see Aguila .22lr in both sub and h/v sold to members on range days, as often as last Saturday in fact.
Hook'N'Bullet
Well-Known Member
What distance are you talking? I've shot rabbits out to 100 meters with CCI subs
10 year old thread… problem solved a long time ago!
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