.243 for Vermin to Deer?

[tjm160]

Can .243 also be used for "vermin" i.e. Rabbits and Mid-Field Crows (i.e. is it commonly "authorised" if requested)?

By way of background to the question; I have .17 HMR, .22 and .223 on my FAC presently. Already having upset the missus with three gun purchases in one year (12g, .17 HMR and .22), I'm seeking to "rationalise". I didn't apply for a deer calibre initially as I expected it to be several years before desiring/ready to progress to deer and didn't want to push my luck (the FEO was happy with the .223 off the back of the military training). I would now like to add the CF calibre to be better set-up for foxing, possibly PX'ing for the .17 HMR (Sako Quad). However, I've realised it would save a lot of money and possibly additional gun if I could change the .223 for .243. My FEO has already indicated that a variation for the .223 to .243 should be favourably viewed so long as I can "justify" (DSC1 would help but is not mandatory). I love my HMR, but if pushed to rationalise, feel that the .22 and .243 would perhaps be the best configuration to cover all bases.

 

[Jager SA]

The .22 is cheap to feed and will do all your close rabbit work, the .17 isn't cheap to run but I do like it, not so good for bunnies if you're weighing them in unless head shot!

.223, great calibre for sniping bunnies and shooting Charlie and small Deer (Roe in Scotland)


.243, great all round calibre, fantastic for sniping bunnies, great foxing round and more than capable for all UK Deer.


Don't be bullied by the FEO, have a read of the home office guidelines and have a copy on the table when comes to visit...YOU choose what way you want to go and check all your bases on doing so, so that they can't come back with some bull about suitability. They don't make policy they interpret at their discretion which doesn't mean it's a legal requirement.

 

[bobjs]

wiltshire will allow it with no issues but they will insist that you have some form of deer management/dcs1/stalking/ qualification etc before you get the 243.

i have been using mine for everything from furballs to deer with no issues.(apart from there is not a lot left of a rabbit after a 85gr pill hits it.)

bob.

 

[tjm160]

Thanks gents that's most helpful. I suspected as much on the DSC. The FEO is clearly keeping to the rules in stating that DSC1 is not mandatory but clearly it would significantly lessen the chances of being approved if not possessed first. I had planned to do DSC1 in the next 6-months anyhow, so will look to get a course booked and completed before applying for the .223 to .243 variation.

 

[Jager SA]

Thanks gents that's most helpful. I suspected as much on the DSC. The FEO is clearly keeping to the rules in stating that DSC1 is not mandatory but clearly it would significantly lessen the chances of being approved if not possessed first. I had planned to do DSC1 in the next 6-months anyhow, so will look to get a course booked and completed before applying for the .223 to .243 variation.

Level 1 as you know isn't mandatory so they cannot ask that you compete it before granting a .243, the more that people accept this as the norm (level 1 for Deer cal) the greater the chances of it becoming mandatory!

Your call but I wouldn't accept this, I'd consider a mentor if you know anyone and if that suits you.

 

[csl]

Do Wilts do 'any other legal quarry'? If so then you're sorted with the .243 automatically.

The only thing you have to worry about then is whether a pound a shot is worth it for rabbits and crows

 

[tjm160]

Thanks Jager although I wouldn't consider shooting a deer unless/until 'proficient' and so do not really have an issue with completing DSC1 first. A mentor would be more/most preferable regardless, but I'm not sure how I would go about finding one. Are there established channels for finding mentors?

 

[tjm160]

lol thanks csl, that's a bit of a wake up call Now I see why most CF users re-load.

I asked the FEO about AOLQ and he made positive noises that it would be ok so I guess that answers that. It's just "justifying" a .243 for which DSC1 first would clearly help.

 

[The tramp]

lol thanks csl, that's a bit of a wake up call Now I see why most CF users re-load.

I asked the FEO about AOLQ and he made positive noises that it would be ok so I guess that answers that. It's just "justifying" a .243 for which DSC1 first would clearly help.

Mate, your in wilts, book a dsc for sometime in the future, put in your variation and let them know you are doing dsc, you'll get 'deer control and any other lawful quarry'
wilts like you to shoot deer while supervised by an experienced stalker until you have passed a recognised deer qual, or you have experience, and a mentor or similair, to confirm this.

​I have deer and any other lawful quarry on the .444, no questions asked as I had three other deer legal rifles anyway. You should see what that does to rabbits

 

[tjm160]

Thanks, again most helpful and much appreciated. A mentor is clearly the way to go in the meantime, if I can find one.

 

[Jager SA]

Thanks Jager although I wouldn't consider shooting a deer unless/until 'proficient' and so do not really have an issue with completing DSC1 first. A mentor would be more/most preferable regardless, but I'm not sure how I would go about finding one. Are there established channels for finding mentors?

Level 1 won't teach you much about Deer, it's a piece of paper which you get from reading a book! I'm sure there are plenty on here who could steer you in the right direction for a mentor and you'll learn a darn sight more!!

 

[tjm160]

Thanks Jager, totally agree and have been most fortunate to have a very kind offer.

 

[jimo]

If your not in a hurry for the deer condition you could just ask for fox. If you wanted to you could then do a couple of paid stalks with an estate rifle and ask for deer later with a bit of experience under your belt. Even better if the stalker you went out with will write you a nice letter to enclose with your application.
DSC1 might only be a bit of paper but it is surprising how often questions on here come up which are covered by the course.

 

[bobjs]

Level 1 won't teach you much about Deer, it's a piece of paper which you get from reading a book! I'm sure there are plenty on here who could steer you in the right direction for a mentor and you'll learn a darn sight more!!

very good point sir,

I would offer my services as i am a known mentor for the wiltshire force, sadly i am no longer stalking and to top it all of i have other things that need my time more than they did a few months back, i have 1 lad i am still mentoring and he has been very kind in understanding my issues here, but should the time and things change i would be more than happy to help in anyway that i can.

kind regards

Bob,

ps: my post was not to scare you off, rather you had a heads up than finding out after building your hopes up.

 

[tjm160]

Thanks Jimo, I have a .223 slot, the quandary contemplated is whether to skip and go straight to .243. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment around DSC1. It's surprising how quickly and unintentionally acquired knowledge can become taken for granted. Knowing nothing about deerstalking whatsoever at the present juncture, the course can but help give me a broad overview, saving a wealth of basic questions and a host of so easily avoidable basic errors. Of course a theoretical course cannot replace hands-on experience and that's clearly where mentoring comes in. I've fired shotgun, small bore and full bore since my early teens, but approaching 40 and applying for the FAC, had no experience of civilian field shooting. Consequently, in the same way that I was so kindly mentored with Pigeon and Pheasant shooting in my teens, I went out with a friend a few times to gain sufficient hands on experience and confidence before stepping out on my own with the HMR and .22 LR. Seeking to move into stalking, I personally see the DSC and mentoring as mutually supportive and equally desirable.

Thanks Bob, it is very good of you indeed and a very much appreciated offer. Another forum member has however already very kindly stepped forwards.

I am quite bowled over with the kindness and generosity already shown in my brief time on the forum. Members so readily and willingly offering to help out a newbie seeking to enter the sport. A far cry for sure, from the welcome on previous forums and rather dispels the myth of the elitist and aloof sport of deer stalking I just saw referenced in another thread.

 

[bobjs]

TJM,

well done sir,

I wish you well, there are some true gents on this forum and then theres some others that are.................lets just stop there

anyway, as said if i can help let me know i'm only down the road and have a few shooting buddies in chippers and a very good ham radio friend there too so i don't need an excuse to pop over there.

all the best and i wish you well.

bob.

 

[GWILLI]

Thanks, again most helpful and much appreciated. A mentor is clearly the way to go in the meantime, if I can find one.

hi. I applied for and got a .22 and a .223. I then asked if I could have .243 instead of .223 as a foxing rifle and maybe deer in the future. I did not mention the deer, just fox and vermin and they were happy to change as I only then have one rifle. I am in gwent. the mentoring issue is still being debated I think as some forces now doing away with it and making up their own rules/criteria.any problems speak to BASC . good luck with your application

 

[willyroe]

Totally with you for a .243 all rounder but it would be an expensive choice for bashing bunnies!

 

[tjm160]

@ Bob - thanks, I would certainly very much appreciated meeting you and indeed any introductions to fellow Chippenham shooters, if you should have the time and opportunity at any point.

@ Gwilli - thanks for sharing, I could apply for the variation without DSC1, but since intending to do it anyway and not quite yet being ready to add the .243, I guess I might just as well complete first.

@ Willyroe - yes, I'm glad the ammo cost question has arisen forcing me to look into. The .243 would be held in conjunction with the .22. I would certainly prefer to keep the HMR as a "between" rifle, but if circumstances forced only two rifles, I guess I would just forgoe the flexibility of bunnies over ~100-yds. I guess the subject for a separate thread, but it would be great to have some pointers on home loading.

 

[mathieson]

Hi 243 is a good all round calibre I use mine mostly for deer as well as foxs but I am not aversed to poping the odd bunny with it just make sure that they put the all other legal quary on your ticket