30-06 load question.

gixer1

Well-Known Member
I am trying to load a starting load for a friends 30-06, I had some 150gr FMJ spitzers around and also some 150gr FN's so thought I'd try these.I have loaded the spitzers with a starting load from the Lee manual of 49.2gr of IMR4320 and the FN's with 50gr IMR 4320 and seated both bullets to the cannelure.The spitzers are 3.20" OAL and the FN's are 3.03" OAL, I then noticed the lee manual for the 150gr jacketed bullets shows a min OAL of 3.25"...Am I ok to use what I have loaded? The 3.25" seems very long but I'm wondering if it is just the difference in bullet type in the lee manual from what I have loaded.See pics below...They will be fired from an M1 Garand. (Invade it makes a difference)Thanks in advance.Gixer
 

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Southern

Well-Known Member
A starting load would be 46.0 gr of IMR-4320. Depending on the brass, 50.0 might be max for some rifles.

A 147 to 150-gr FMJ should have an OAL of 3.185" to start. Get the charge adjusted, and then play with moving the OAL to 3.20. As you know, not all bullets have the same profile, so the OAL had some room for dialing in, if you like.

Soft points have even more different profiles, especially the nose, so OAL becomes more nebulous. So they run at 3.20 to 3.24 inches. Start at 3.20".

Where is be base of that soft point bullet in the neck? Is it a flat base? The base should be about even with the bottom of the neck.

Get that FMJ shooting pretty well, and seat the soft point bullets with the same die setting, and see where that puts the cannelure.

Don't worry too much about a big jump to the lands. Look at the 125-gr loads. Most are a lot shorter, and they shoot great, and in the Garand and in matches.
 

gixer1

Well-Known Member
A starting load would be 46.0 gr of IMR-4320. Depending on the brass, 50.0 might be max for some rifles.

A 147 to 150-gr FMJ should have an OAL of 3.185" to start. Get the charge adjusted, and then play with moving the OAL to 3.20. As you know, not all bullets have the same profile, so the OAL had some room for dialing in, if you like.

Soft points have even more different profiles, especially the nose, so OAL becomes more nebulous. So they run at 3.20 to 3.24 inches. Start at 3.20".

Where is be base of that soft point bullet in the neck? Is it a flat base? The base should be about even with the bottom of the neck.

Get that FMJ shooting pretty well, and seat the soft point bullets with the same die setting, and see where that puts the cannelure.

Don't worry too much about a big jump to the lands. Look at the 125-gr loads. Most are a lot shorter, and they shoot great, and in the Garand and in matches.

Thanks, for the info, the starting load was listed in the lee manual as 49gr of IMR4320 (you can see it on the second line down of the pic I posted) with a max of 52.3gr.

the brass was only neck sized with a lee loader.

so in light of the above will I be ok to shoot these?

regards,
gixer
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
Oh, sure, shoot them. They as still under 60,000 psi.. I don't have my current Hodgdon manual in front of me. It is always good to work off updated manuals, as powders change.
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
I pulled out some 1972 Lake City ammo, and measured them. The 150-gr FMJBT and the 173-gr were were both, 3.320 inches, all 10 of each that I measured.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
There are many powders suitable for rifles like the M1 Garland but several that are not and will damage it. I think that no "slow" powder...H4831....is suitable as something to do with the gas pressure when it reaches the transfer hole to operate the piston. And if a "slow" powder the residual pressure being enough to bend the piston rod?

Some say H4350 is the "slowest" safe powder or IMR4064? I can't recall if that is correct info BUT any good US Forum...Accurate Reloading, say, will be a place to look.
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
For a Garand, you want a powder which peaks early, so the gas pressure is at the right level when the bullet passes the bleed hole farther down the barrel, past the end of the hand guard. 4064 and 4895 are very good for the M1 Garand. 4350 is too slow, and 4831 worse, too hard on the operating rod. But any powder to be be loaded up too hot for the Garand, that is, too much pressure and too high of a gas volume.

The same is true of the M14, and FAL, in that the actual velocities of USGI and NATO ammunition is well under the book advertised speeds for bolt actions with 24 inch barrels. No problem, because it is fast enough, and the sights on the M1 an M14 especially are very good and calibrated out to very long range.

I can give you almost all the GI loads and replicate loads for the .30 US and the 7.62x51mm, in original powders, subsequent powders, and contemporary powders. I have the printed manuals and specifications, and ammo going back to 1904, to break apart and examine.
 
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gixer1

Well-Known Member
So would IMR 4320 be ok at that load and OAL?

i pulled the 150gr spitzers and reseated them at 3.253" still with the 49gr of powder.

as he just wants to try a few I have also made up the .308 150gr FN's, with 50gr of powder and 3.03" OAL.

he just wants to see how it compares to the mil spec rounds he has for accuracy as he is thinking about starting reloading.

thanks for all the input so far.

Regards,
Gixer
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
Sure, give it a whirl a 3.253". That is a good length for 150s, and you are giving your 4320 a little more space.
 

gixer1

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input guys, had the M1 at the range and both loads shot ok, so at least we have something to work with!

First time I've shot one and have to say I can see why people like them, nice rifle to shoot.

regards,
gixer
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
Glad you had a good outing with the M1 Garand. What do you mean by, "shot ok"? If you are not accustomed to the sights, you will do better as you shoot some more.

See if you can get some 4895 powder. For ammunition, look for some Korean surplus rotation out of stores, every ten years. This is really good stuff.

General George Patton said the M1 Garand was the most decisive weapon of World War II, more so than any tank, ship, or airplane.
 

Muir

Well-Known Member
Glad you had a good outing with the M1 Garand. What do you mean by, "shot ok"? If you are not accustomed to the sights, you will do better as you shoot some more.

See if you can get some 4895 powder. For ammunition, look for some Korean surplus rotation out of stores, every ten years. This is really good stuff.

General George Patton said the M1 Garand was the most decisive weapon of World War II, more so than any tank, ship, or airplane.
I've had a few, still have a Winchester. I kept the Winchester because it had exceptionally nice wood and was remarkably accurate. It also never got the parkerizing that so many did in Korea. A buddy of mine has it in his racks of WWII rifles and I told him to shoot it if he wished, but NEVER break it down or tear it apart because I didn't want to jeopardize it's accuracy.... Which happens when you take an accurate, standard MI Garand apart and reassemble.

I've rebarreled at least two dozen Korean re-imports to the mythical 'tanker' versions (I called them "tanker-toys") along with remaking the op-rods to fit. I did this as I worked my way through college doing barrel work for the local gunsmith. My time with the Garands was miserable. The only bright spot was that Springfield Armory Inc. from whom we got the barrels wanted to buy the op-rod reforming jig I designed and built. I was flattered.

Frankly? I hate the damned things. What else was Patton going to say? The Germans have way better autoloading rifles but this POS only costs us $12 to build so you're stuck with it?? Doubt it.~Muir
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
The Winchester M1s are nice. The last one I bought, ten years ago, from the owner who got it from the CMP in the 1960s, is beautiful, and shoots well enough to just put it in the car and drive to Camp Perry.

I think most GIs were believers in the M1. My surviving friends from the 4th Marine Division in the Pacific believed in it. My deceased friend, a Marine sniper in the Pacific, who gave me his M1D, believed. My Scoutmaster, a sergeant at the Choison, who watched disciplined, aimed lanes of fire drop 2, 3 and 4 enemy with each bullet, believed. My father, who saw a column of GIs in North Africa stand up and shoot down an ME-109 straffing them, believed in the M1. That is why the .30-06 is still a major round in the US. And after having an M1 and an M-14 sitting in my barracks room, shooting one for years, I have utter faith in the M-14. I like the G3 and the FAL better in many ways, but what Patton was saying is that, against bolt action K-98s, or MP-44s, Ppsh-41s, AK-47s, or anything else at the time, it made the difference, like the longbow at Agincourt.
 

Muir

Well-Known Member
The Winchester M1s are nice. The last one I bought, ten years ago, from the owner who got it from the CMP in the 1960s, is beautiful, and shoots well enough to just put it in the car and drive to Camp Perry.

I think most GIs were believers in the M1. My surviving friends from the 4th Marine Division in the Pacific believed in it. My deceased friend, a Marine sniper in the Pacific, who gave me his M1D, believed. My Scoutmaster, a sergeant at the Choison, who watched disciplined, aimed lanes of fire drop 2, 3 and 4 enemy with each bullet, believed. My father, who saw a column of GIs in North Africa stand up and shoot down an ME-109 straffing them, believed in the M1. That is why the .30-06 is still a major round in the US. And after having an M1 and an M-14 sitting in my barracks room, shooting one for years, I have utter faith in the M-14. I like the G3 and the FAL better in many ways, but what Patton was saying is that, against bolt action K-98s, or MP-44s, Ppsh-41s, AK-47s, or anything else at the time, it made the difference, like the longbow at Agincourt.
Nah! The men behind them made the difference.
I admit I have no emotional attachment to them. On the other hand, I have a great sentimentality towards a Marlin Model 783 22 WMR. I used one of these to keep myself in money and food for an entire year. I'm not saying that this equates to anything happening in war, but I swore by that rifle because it was what I had, and I made good use of it. Maybe it's a touch of the same sentiment. That Marlin is a rifle with many faults but I have a fondness for them that the years have not dampened.~Muir
 

Southern

Well-Known Member
I have a friend like you, who fed his family while in college in Montana, with a Marlin 1894 in .357 Magnum, and that included mule deer and elk. It is the last gun he would ever sell.

When you only have one or two firearms, and live with one for I year or more, I cannot imagine not becoming attached to it, if it never lets you down. I have a Marlin 99C like that, bought it as a boy, still have it. I have shot it so much, that I don't think it matters if it wears the original Weaver 6x I got for Christmas, the Weaver variable power rimfire scope my children gave me when they were all still ages 6-10, or no sights at all - I think I could fill the pot with it. Every time I pick it up, I am transported into the woods, and every time I am in the woods with it, I expect to see game, and get it. You know the Swiss K-31s are like that, when you find the owner's name and address in the buttstock, and write them, and they write you back, asking for photos.
 

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