PM sent.
.410 reloading
- Thread starter 25 Sharps
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West Coast Sports
Active Member
Exactly, good reason must be given.Rifle and pistol primers are controlled under the Violent Crime reduction Act of 2006 section 35 to buy from an RFD the purchaser must have an FAC conditioned to need them ie for LR a .308 or SR a .223 etc.
Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006
An Act to make provision for reducing and dealing with the abuse of alcohol; to make provision about real and imitation firearms, about ammunition and about knives and other weapons; to amend the Football Spectators Act 1989 and the Football (Disorder) Act 2000; to amend the Sexual Offences Act...www.legislation.gov.uk
Shotgun certificate is not good reason to buy metallic cartridge primers.
edited to add ignorance of the law is no excuse, up to 6 months in prison and or a heavy fine, loss of RFD, FAC SGC cert also. If you are in this industry you really should know the laws that apply, even more fun is looking at the RIF and IF laws. Realistic Imitation Firearms and Imitation Firearms and these are toys.
In this case for the sole use of reloading shotgun cartridges for which the individual has authority to possess and by virtue of to manufacture,
and it's sole use limited to the said manufacture, requirement is met..
I have yet to see an FAC being issued just for aquisition of primers or additional authority entered on to an individuals shotgun cert.
VCRA 2006 laid out requirements in order to prevent items them could be used in the production of ammuntion being obtained by those without authority falling, something the industry by good practise was already doing.
Good point raised and one for discussion.
I had a friend using .410 brass cases when the VCRA 2006 became law he only had a SGC so he wrote to the home office and they confirmed he could not buy metallic ammunition cap primers on his SGC and attempting to do so was against the law.
You cannot cherry pick the law because it suits you.
Why not ask your FEO if it’s ok to sell them to only a SGC holder?
West Coast Sports
Active Member
No Cherry picking at all, this has been a point of discussion before.
Not a dick swinging contest, but rather education.
.22 hornet is classified as a rifle cartridge using small rifle primers is it not? agree they fit and could be used but technically they are the wrong primer.
We may not like the restrictions the VCRA 35 puts on us but it is law.
As is often the case we are just collateral damage in the VCRA section 35 it’s intentions are obviously aimed at the criminals making ammunition rather than SGC or FAC holders but as normal we feel the burden of it and they pop across the channel to buy them.
Technically they are wrong but it is very common practice and even recommended in some data.
But if someone is buying .410 shotgun cases that specifically run in Large Rifle then they shouldn’t be stopped within the law from purchasing primers suitable for that case provided they have an SGC with .410 on it.
Their is no good reason discretionary defence
35Restriction on sale and purchase of primers
(1)This section applies to a cap-type primer designed for use in metallic ammunition for a firearm.
(2)It is an offence for a person to sell to another either—
(a)a primer to which this section applies,
(b)an empty cartridge case incorporating such a primer,
unless that other person falls within subsection (3).
(3)A person falls within this subsection if—
(a)he is a registered firearms dealer;
(b)he sells by way of any trade or business either primers or empty cartridge cases incorporating primers, or both;
(c)he produces a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of a relevant kind;
(d)he produces a certificate authorising him to possess ammunition of a relevant kind;
(e)he shows that he is a person in the service of Her Majesty who is entitled under subsection (6) to acquire a primer to which this section applies;
(f)he shows that he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 (c. 45) or any other enactment and otherwise than by virtue of being a person in the service of Her Majesty, to have possession, without a certificate, of a firearm of a relevant kind or of ammunition of a relevant kind;
(g)he produces a certificate authorising another person to have possession of such a firearm, or of such ammunition, together with that other person's authority to purchase the primer or empty cartridge case on his behalf; or
(h)he shows that he is authorised by regulations made by the Secretary of State to purchase primers or cartridge cases of the type in question.
And it states that as an exemption where in VCRA section 35 ??
As much as it is a pain in the rear you cannot legally buy metallic cap type primers on a SGC.
Until there is a test case any debate is just internet noise.
It’s states that someone can purchase primers if
c)he holds a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of a relevant kind;
Large rifle primers can be used to prime metal .410 cases so if you have an SGC with a .410 then you have a certificate authorising the possession of a firearm of the relevant kind.
Very grey area that as a shotgun is not of a relevant kind to use metalic primers they use type 209 primers.
The metallic type all state on the packaging Rifle or Pistol.
However if you quote that and the RFD sells them to you then so be it.
Is that the same as condoning breaking the law until found out
read on
11)In this section—
- “ammunition of a relevant kind” means ammunition for a firearm of a relevant kind;
- “enactment” includes an enactment passed after the passing of this Act;
- “firearm of a relevant kind” means a firearm other than a shot gun, an air weapon or a firearm chambered for rim-fire ammunition.
Okay, that does seem exclusive, I genuinely can’t see a prosecution being brought though.
Fortunately I have 1 or 2 firearms of ‘the relevant kind’ to buy about any primer going other than 50 cal and up….
As does some creedmoor brass but going by the definition in section 11 above, any CF allows you to buy any CF primer.
Because a “firearm of a relevant kind” means a firearm other than a shot gun, an air weapon or a firearm chambered for rim-fire ammunition
As I say as is the norm the law abiding get hit the hardest, Home Office could have easily included an exemption for SGC and FAC owners within the act, so either by design or ignorance they did not. Another example of them creating a poor law just to justify being seen to do something, from memory in 2006 it was a time of high knife crime and the act had its grand title of violent crime reduction.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
One can buy 12g brass cases that use LR primers.
How I read the law quoted by Liveonce, being in legal possession of a firearm, be it shotgun or rifle , one is eligible to purchase any primer necessary to achieve loaded ammunition for said firearm.
Upto yet I have not read part of the law that states, if you have a rifle those are the only primers you may obtain and if you own a shotgun you can only obtain a 209 primer.
For instance if I need percussion caps for my muzzloader shotguns I can obtain the same cap used for rifles!
Sometimes we can read to much into laws
Personally if was a dealer and someone I didn't know walked into my store wanting rifle primers but could only produce a shotgun certificate I would discreetly redirect him to 209primers and wait for a response etc etc.
How I read the law quoted by Liveonce, being in legal possession of a firearm, be it shotgun or rifle , one is eligible to purchase any primer necessary to achieve loaded ammunition for said firearm.
Upto yet I have not read part of the law that states, if you have a rifle those are the only primers you may obtain and if you own a shotgun you can only obtain a 209 primer.
For instance if I need percussion caps for my muzzloader shotguns I can obtain the same cap used for rifles!
Sometimes we can read to much into laws
Personally if was a dealer and someone I didn't know walked into my store wanting rifle primers but could only produce a shotgun certificate I would discreetly redirect him to 209primers and wait for a response etc etc.
Think I understand you, VCRA 2006 only applies to metallic cap type primers used in rifles and pistols and to buy them you need an FAC, percussion caps and shotgun primers 209 are not included within the VCRA and can be purchased without any certificate, FAC or SGC not required.
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