4x4 Tax

monynut

Well-Known Member
#1
If like me l am sure there is a lot of you out there that use a 4x4 for there stalking and other activities l am also a part time keeper and realy could not do without one,l stalk for pleasure and also offer a service to local estates and landowners and make no profit out of it,l also do the gamekeeping for next to nothing only my diesel expencis are covered,so why are we tared with the same brush as the chelsea tractor owners who the majority of them use as a status symble to pop to the shops and do the school run, there should be some sort of exemption for lagitamate 4x4 users who use these vehicles for what they are designed for, l am all for helping the enviroment but not at the expence of helping this so called govenment raise more for there own mismanagement of the country so thanks Mr Brown and president Blair :evil: l am sure that l am not alone in feeling like this.
 
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Davie

Guest
#3
I my self think they should be taxed i my self would have hit them harder they are more than twice as heavy as a car they rip up the roads and are Bloody dangerous in the wrong hands. The fuel they uses has got little to do with it in my book. Get a van and a quad and keep the roads clear of the 4X4 user. PS If your 4x4 is linked to a business you have nothing to moan at as you can claim all road tax back form Gordon the Scot.
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
#4
Any car is bloody dangerous in the wrong hands, a small lightweight vehicle being driven by a boy racer can rip up the roads, a van with a quad in it is not exactly lightweight and there is a good chance it would have the same if not bigger footprint than a 4X4. This anti 4x4 feeling is ridiculous and encouraged by the powers that be. As I understand it not only will it be 4x4's that are to be targeted but also people carriers and the larger saloon. Does this mean we should all be driving about mini's?

This holier than thou Government that we have is making all sorts of promises to spend vast amounts of money to deal with a problem that has not been proved to exist.

There was an excellent program on the TV the other night all about global warming and the effect's of greenhouse gases. It showed how climatic change is cyclical, it had hard scientific proof of this with samples taken from deep within the ice caps at the poles. As for carbon emission's, well, I cannot remember the figures but, the percentage of man made carbon emissions was miniscule in comparison to the emission's produced annually by the Earth itself. If I remember correctly the oceans were the biggest producers

We have been frightened, hoaxed, bamboozled call it what you will into believing that we as a race are responsible for the slow but sure destruction of the earth. I for one just cannot believe this as there is so much opposition to it from within the scientific community, and history, stretching back hundreds of thousands of years supports the cylical theory. It was not that long ago that the Thames used to freeze over on a regular basis. To me it is a good campaigning vote getter to look green and make green promises.

Back to the 4X4's, people do not like them because why? Everybody has first hand knowledge of driving them do they? running one? no! Someone with a loud mouth has said they do not like them and it has roller coasted from there. Do they belong in towns well, if you lived in a town and towed a caravan to take the family on holiday with, what will be your carbon footprint for a typical year compared to someone who runs around in a family saloon all year then flew the family off on holiday. I don't know but it would be intersting to see. Now, I am not saying that I do not believe that we should not do anything to look after the earth's natural resources, because I do. However I do think that we should do it in an honest way and stop to picking on different parts of society. We as hunters are frowned upon, gun ownership, fieldsports, fishing, where will it stop?

If the Government only spent the revenue that motorist's generate on the matters relating to motoring then I expect the price of fuel would come down and we would all pay £25 a year road tax. Just what does it spend our money on????

OK, I'm ready, fire!

John
 
#5
JAYB
Very well said. I also saw that program on TV related to global warming due to carbon dioxide - or otherwise. Very good and very convincing. It seems global warming could be a great political and econonmic scam.

I look at another shooting and stalking forum and much has been said; but you are the only one who has taken up a reference to that (what I consider to be) vital program. Why hasn't it had more publicity??

Vagabond.
 

paul k

Well-Known Member
#6
Actually most of you have nothing to moan about as this only applies to cars registered after 23rd March 2006 and your dealer will probably pay the first year's tax for a new car.

It doesn't just apply to 4x4s and it may not apply to some 4x4s as it's based on emissions, so those driving smaller 4x4s and diesel models might not be affected anyway even if your car is new enough.

I love my 4x4 as it enables me to look over hedges and spot deer that I wouldn't be able to see from a lower vehicle.

I may have to sell the Testarossa though!
 

Thar

Well-Known Member
#7
Jayb

I see on the news this week a group of prominent scientists have came out and said that the green house effect is being over played (polite way of saying you are talking bollocks me thinks ;) ).

Now I am with you on conserving the earth resources, but my wife says that is because I am just tight. :oops:

I run a Suzuki 1.9 diesel 4X4 that does 40 mpg and about 80 mph flat out and it is going to be put in the same tax bracket as a Ranger Rover V8 supercharger doing less than 10 mpg.

The other facture being over looked is the amount of recourses used in making these new “greener” cars' there should be tax encouragements the run older vehicles for longer.

I also believe that the Stalinist Chancellor (to be fair all parties are heading the same polices) is using “Green Tax” to tax us all and get a pat on the back for it, I don’t think people are going to be conned for much longer not that that will stop the politicians from ripping the heart out of our wallets. What I want to know is were is all our money going, in there pension fund no doubt. :mad:

Thar
 

rogern

Active Member
#8
4*4

6.5*55


What a stupid statement, 'dangerous in the wrong hands'
a bloody electric wheelchair is dangerous in the wrong hands, you see, you are just like your mate Gordon the Scot, tar everyone with the same brush.

We live 900 feet up the side of a mountain so we need a 4*4 just to get in and out, we always get snow and a regular car would not make it back home.

Go on then, give me the usual Bull**** like you choose to live there, why dont you move down into concrete city etc.

I would love to do without a car of any decription, just so I dont have to give slackjaw gordon any more hard earned cash, but I cant.

Oh yes, of course a quad is very environmentaly friendly, isnt it?
Go and hug a tree
 
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malcolm

Guest
#9
6.5x55 obviously you have not taken into account all those people who live in remote rural areas that need a 4x4. Ripping up the roads eh! what a load of b-----ks. Whatabout the boy racers that tear around the streets tearing up the roads, uninsured and causing accidents? I also have a quad, which I tow behind my 4x4, and it has taken me 20 years to accumilate the equipment I now have, and I have paid my bloody taxes the same as you and everyone else. There are more accidents caused by juggernaut lorries with foreign plates on them than 4x4 drivers.

Great Britain used to be a free country. Why should anyone be penalised because they want or need or like to drive a 4x4. If this law was applied in the States or France there would be riots. What you do not seem to realise is that the present government have taken away another one of our rights, the right to choose which vehicle we like or want to drive. Maybe they should hike up the tax on vans, after all most white van drivers are amongst the worst drivers on the roads.
 

Willie

Well-Known Member
#11
I drive a Mercedes ML270 and yes I do use it for stalking and on the syndicate shoot. I would love to own a Land Rover Defender 110 but the wife said no.

I suppose I will have to pay the chancellors 4x4 tax and keep heating up the planet
 
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Davie

Guest
#12
Why have i not taken into account people that live in out of the way places. Its a fact the a good family car will go most places . The yuppie 4x4 is really out of control. So while you moan and cry over your disco or something similar ask why the woman down the road needs a porsche jeep that can do 140 mph and has no real 4x4 uses. 80% of 4x4 are made for road use and come supplied with road tyres. I will bet most people that live in the villages of northern Scot were i come from see more snow in a week than you do in a years. With regards accident if you hit some one with a large 2 ton 4x4 they have more chance of dieing than with a standard crumple designed car. With regards vans if i see a thousand woman with sugar dads driving there solitary child to school in large white vans you would here me moan about it. I drive in some of the worst conditions all over northern Scotland and wouldn't consider a 4x4 for the roads . Nor would i by one because once a week i want to play at being a mountain and drive a hundred yards up a muddy track.
 
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malcolm

Guest
#13
I spend at least 2 months of the year driving across Scotland, having two very large areas one on the west coast near Ullapool and the other near Dornoch on the east coast. I also manage other areas in Dorset, Sussex and am frequently in Northumberland, Northamptonshire and Bedfordshire. I drive a crew cab Isuzu Rhodeo TDI and I get better mileage than my wifes 1.8 Ford Escort. I also know of many people who have had their 4x4 converted to gas, this produces less polution than your van 6.5x55 and will give better mileage.

I agree that there are many people who have a 4x4 just to run the kids to school, BUT anyone to tar all 4x4 owners with the same brush is stupid. Perhaps a certain amount of jelousy is involved. Of the many keepers/stalkers I know in Northern Scotland, I would say that 95% have a 4x4 of some description, whether it is the estates or their own.

In 25 years of being a professional stalker, I have also driven in some appaling road conditions, and I would anticipate that the same could be said for every other member of this forum. And I would rather be in my Isuzu than a bloody van any day.

The point is that this labour government has taxed us to death with stealth taxes, they have ridden rough over anything to do with the countryside, they make rediculous claims about deer being in every corner of the country, yet make it harder for legitimate Firearm owners to pursue the sport they love. Next thing they will have us doing is living under the Red Flag and joining the communist party.

At the end of the day it is our freedom of choice that is being erroded.
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
#14
6.5 you cannot apply your own views and circumstances to everyone. I live in the North of Scotland, and you are right we do see more snow than most other folk, we also see more County lorries out there clearing the roads. To say that a good family saloon will go most places, well I dispute that. I know for a fact that I would get stuck or break one at least once a week.

As for the wifey having a 140 mph Porsche 4x4, which is not a jeep 4x4 by the way, well, the majority of family saloons are well capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph, should we ban these too? No, the difference in fuel consumption in a diesel 4x4 is not much different to a family saloon, look at Malcolm his truck does better than his wifes escort. A whole raft of them do well in excess of 30mpg. So if people can afford one and can run it why not. Gordon the stealth pilot just gets more taxes at the pump.

As for hitting someone with a large 4x4 and killing them, I dont think that getting hit by a Ford Mondeo or a mini is good for the health. That my friend is down to the nut behind the wheel I am afraid, and in some cases the nut who wanders into the road in front of an oncoming vehicle.

So, what is it all for?, to prevent a disaster that is at best not proven and in all probability non-existant, I dont think so. How about the latest move that homeowners down South now have to have an energy pack for their homes before they can sell them. This to explain about their energy savings and carbon emissions (there is the scaremongering again), very noble, apparently about £400's worth of nobility. I wonder what the Stealth pilots cut is.

No I think all this anti 4x4 and anti whatever else is out there is driven by money and to a certain extent I think the green eyed monster is involved. All of which is encouraged by our whiter than white Government, did not someone say something about divide and conquer somewhere along the way.

You are of course entitled to your point of view, and your beliefs but please do not expect me to share them.

John
 

monynut

Well-Known Member
#15
Well put Jayb,

We seem to have got away from my original posting but everyone is entitled to their oppinion,this so called govenment has hiden agenders coming out of their ears they use the"GREEN ISSUE"as a smoke screen and a vote getter when at the end of the day we all know that its all about revinue collecting.

Many of us need a 4x4 to go about our daily activities l live in a part of the country that does not see a great deal of snow but we do get a lot of rain and quite honestly a van will just not do the job as far as getting a quad well it would do for the morning phasant feed with probably one or two runs back to the grain store to reload or for extracting the odd buck or stag but when you are faced at the end of a winters day with getting half a dozen does or hinds to get back to the larder and sort it is much quicker and esier to use a trailer behind the 4x4.

As far as 4x4 being lethal in the wrong hands the same has to be said about any vehicle from a reliant robin to a stretch limo l know many people who use 4x4s and none of them have ever been in any sort of scrape,you physically cant go hell for leather along the country roads and if you are on the open roads/moterways etc surely 60/70mph is plenty fast enough not to mention being the law.
 
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Davie

Guest
#16
OK i will bend to pressure from the 2 % on here who really could say they NEED a 4x4 But to say you drive all over and need a 4x4 is rediculess . I drive all over every day every type of weather the only time i need a 4x4 or quad is when i am really off road not on a track etc . How many miles dose the ordinary stalker do off road ill bet 1 mile a year. With regards the pro stalkers they don't need to worry as the tax is fully refundable.
I feel quit insulted by the narrow minded statement by rogern go hug a tree. I deer stalk twice a week and have stalked in some of the most remote places in Britain. Ullapool Garve and then the full west coast. I got rid of my land rover because it was no real use for 99% of the time.
With regards the green eyed monster i don't think so and i am with you on the fuel i don't go with the green route but something needs done with the 4x4 Suzuki jeep being the hairdressers car.
 

beechessam

Well-Known Member
#17
4x4

I drive a 4x4 I live in a rural environment, I do take it off road not every week but enough, I work in town, do I NEED a 4x4? No but its my choice and the last time I checked we still live in a democratic society and its my choice and one I will defend. I really cannot understand the ban this ban that attitude just because someone does not understand or agree with it. This is exactly the same attitude we all face every day as we defend our sport.

Do I resent paying the increase in tax? Yes I do but only because I dont believe the reasons or motives behind it.
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
#18
6.5, I am still having trouble deciding if you have a deep conviction that people driving 4x4's are all spawn of the Devil or you have been caught up in the anti 4x4 fever. You seem to have a dislike of 4x4's, why, because you could not find 100% use for yours 100% of the time?

You are indulging in sterotyping. Criminals use guns, therefore everybody that has or want's a gun is a criminal, white van man has earned himself a terrible reputation for his bad driving, therefore every van driver is of course a lousy driver. Both statements of course are rubbish. I can't use a 4x4's full capabilities all the time, tax them off the road, do you really mean that?

I expect that there are a few hairdressers that drive suzuki's, I'm having trouble with this one what is so wrong about a hairdresser driving a suzuki? It is wrong to stereotype people. I think that you as a stalker should be even more aware of the effects of stereotyping, the slanted view that a lot of society takes of us.

Up here in the Highlands a gun is not seen as something to be afraid of more a tool. People are used to the harsh realities of life, and death, nature red in tooth and claw. It is different in a city or town, the whole way of life is different and if they become exposed to the unknown they resent it or are afraid of it. Of course there are a few that dare to take on this wicked rural life. They hunt, fish, stalk, all manner of things Country, and guess what? they have one of those 4x4 things. Well, they can drag the caravan about, take a load of kids to school (beyond walking distance), carry a load of gear, get to all sorts of places. Not only that they are not much, if at all, longer than the family saloon, the fuel consumption is almost the same, I can afford it and I CHOOSE to have one. This is wrong?

I personaly always get nervous when I see a small hatchback in front of me, I can see the front seat, I can see the outline of the head restraint but, I cannot see a head. Now when these things are being driven at a speed that can only be described as a rolling road block I get past them just as soon as it is safe to do so. Then a mirror check shows that the car is being driven by someone who can hardly see over the wheel they are so small. Now what?, start a campaign against short people driving? I don't think so, bloody ridiculous next thing you know there will be public outcry against Shooting, Hunting, Fishing and 4X4's!

I think there is room for us all to indulge ourselves in what we want and pay for. I do not think that we should be dictated to by people who just happen to not like what we do or, are jealous of what we have. It is legal, it is paid for and no one has proved it to be harmful, just lucrative for the powers that be. Which takes us back to the original posting, this road tax on 4x4's and the others that fall victim to the latest legislation, is a bloody liberty.

John

John
 
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malcolm

Guest
#19
Well put John. We are being penalised by the labour government for choosing to use a 4x4. The green issue is a poor excuse. Have you noticed how many gas guzzling cars MP's drive or are driven in?

I think at the last count John Prescott had about 5 at his disposal, but then the tax payer pays for his road tax.
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
#20
6.5x55

What utter tosh you speak!

How can a Vitara somehow be "worse" than a Transit Van? How can a Freelander be "bad" but a generic Peoplecarrier be "good" because it doesn't have four wheel drive???

I don't have much time for the present Government, but at least they seem to have approached this with a bit more common sense than you 6.5x55.

The new increase in tax is going to be based on emmissions and will be an added incentive to the car industry to reduce them which hopefully means increased MPG for us as vehicles get more effecient.

In fairness to the Government, they have been reducing road tax on cleaner vehicles for some time to give people an incentive to switch and they have only aimed this at new vehicles, so people shouldn't be caught out ...

Leaving gobal warming aside, reducing air polution from vehicles has got to be a good thing especially as the number of vehicles on our roads is increasing all the while...

Hopefully this increase in tax will result in fleet buyers ect putting pressure on the car industry to produce vehicles that don't fall into Band G...once one or company's start doing this, others will have to follow to stay competitive...that can only be a good thing...

The car industry certainly needs a kick up the a** in this regard; for instance how long has LPG been available in the uk, but how many new 4x4's are available as dual fuel straight off the production line?

I don't think this increase in tax is the whole answer; (we need to do other things like moving fraight off the roads and back onto the railways)
but if it results in more fuel efficient vehicles, maybe it won't be as bad as people think...

Regard
 

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