6.5 Creedmoor - Are stalkers shooting at longer ranges?

[Mungo]

Ah, that's why you're getting the drop then, must admit for me 6.5 CM (and 6.5 Swede) is a 24" minimum rifle to get the best out of the cartridge, but sounds like its working for you! A buddy of mine shoots fallow at 250 plus with a 6.5 grendel so your set up is going to be beating that on power even with the short barrel

Yes - I agree that to get much more than 2700fps you probably need the longer barrel. I even have a 24” barrel on order.

But at the moment everything I shoot at has been falling over as quick as I need it to.

I’ve actually started to think that instead of rebarrelling my CM, I’ll get a PRC made up...

 

[Rutland lad]

I used to work at a place who's motto was 'Experiencia Docet'

For those of us unfamiliar with Latin it translates as 'Experience Teaches'

Without naming names or taking sides, I'd just like to point out that simple fact.

Otherwise the name of this site may have to change to the 'Insulting Directory'

 

[GrizZLy9]

Currently using factory 143gr eldx.

Shooting from 20” barrel. Comes out very slow - 2550fps. I got hung up on this for a while, but it’s working well for me and I’ve stopped worrying.

Ah, that's why you're getting the drop then, must admit for me 6.5 CM (and 6.5 Swede) is a 24" minimum rifle to get the best out of the cartridge

But at the moment everything I shoot at has been falling over as quick as I need it to.

In the 6.5 Creedmoor you're giving up ~25 fps MV per inch of barrel length. That's ~100 fps MV dropping from 24" down to 20". So based on those factory ammo velocities...

20" barrel
6.5mm 143gr ELD-X
MV 2550 fps
@ 300yd 2169 fps 1494 ft-lbs
Drop ~8.64" (based on 200 yd zero)

24" barrel
6.5mm 143gr ELD-X
MV 2650 fps
@ 300yd 2265 fps 1629 ft-lbs
Drop ~7.56" (based on 200 yd zero)

Not really a game changer. I appreciate that if you're really pushing the distances then the longer barrel makes sense, but otherwise I can't see much need for it - mind you, I would say that as I just had a T3 rebarreled in 6.5 Creedmoor at 20" I just prefer handling a shorter rifle (total barrel length with mod is ~24"). What am I giving up? Not a lot at the distances I shoot deer. Now, if we're talking copper monolithic...

 

[EddieArran505]

I would say the vast majority of deer in the UK are shot within 300 metres, I don't really get this whole hits harder thing! Aiming for the top of the heart then too high you hit the lungs - dead deer, even higher you're in the spine - dead or at least immobilised deer, too low you probably miss, too far forward probably Hilar - dead deer, too far back you hit the liver dead deer, further back gut shot - deer not dead very quickly - these outcomes are all the same whether the deer is hit with a .243, .264 or .308.

If you take out the heart, lungs or both then why do you need to hit harder? If you are saying that you need more energy, just to make sure, why are we not all using magnums?

While everyone is understandably interested in the 6.5 Creedmoor v .308 Win comparison and with particular reference to drop and energy at range, can I throw a spanner in the works? I sometimes use a 300wsm - 168gr BST @ 3065fps, 3519 ft.lbs at the muzzle, 1725 ft.lbs @ 500yards, 100 yard zero gives 37.9" (7.2 moa) drop at 500 yards. That is a fast, flat, hard hitting round - and yes I think that impact energy counts. Ignoring the valid and interesting technical arguments regarding energy transfer of different bullets etc., I think for deer they are like us - the harder they get hit the quicker they go down and then inevitably 25 Sharps is quite right - dead is dead but in my experience, deer shot with this rifle seem to take a massive hit that puts them down quicker than my .243 and maybe that`s a good thing for them. The only disadvantage I really see with the 300wsm is that the loss of sight picture due to recoil is more pronounced, but it`s really never been a problem. Mine is a heavy rifle but there are plenty of standard weight hunting rifles in this calibre so I`m a bit surprised more don`t use this calibre. At the end of the day it`s a .308 on steroids - brilliant. There are many discussions on recoil, and maybe it`s just that I`m used to it, but I genuinely don`t notice any when I fire. It`s just sight picture that I notice.
Needless to say it is a great long range rifle - love it.
Anyway.....back to the 6.5 Creedmoor v .308Win thing.

 

[Scipius]

I changed from the 6.5x55 using factory ammo to the creedmoor as I found it to be slow on grassing Reds. The creedmoor factory ammo Hornady 143g ELD-X certainly has them down quicker with little damage. It seams to hit them harder. You also see what you hit.

interesting,- at what distance (circa) do you tend to make those hits?

 

[JH83]

Can't even give a reasonable response to something that was factual... Back under your bridge matey

My response was aimed at DK I have no idea how I responded to you in that

I wouldn’t say factual I’d say your interpretation, mine interpretation is get as close as possible and that’s the ethos of deerstalking as I perceive it. If that’s 15 yards..wonderful. If it’s 400 yards..wonderful, but you better be within your limits and from what I’ve seen on ranges very few are.

 

[dodgyknees]

I think our point back to you sunshine is what you’ve seen is bugger all.

Happy to troll stuff you have no experience of, and don’t understand. Each to their own.

When I go “stalking” these days, I’m old school lever gun and open sights. See, we’re not all “sniper heroes” all the time eh.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Isn't it strange that a reasonable post can, for some chaps, turn into a piddling competition with more testosterone flowing than at the height of the red rut? In the UK, rifles and calibres, like so many other things are a matter of personal choice but perhaps uniquely their choice is prescribed by firearms licensing policy/guidance which sets out pretty clearly the calibres per quarry. Within those selections you pays your money and you makes your choice, all will work for the various species so the rest including your choice is just opinion (informed or otherwise), hyperbole or clever marketing. Perhaps a rather simple analogy would be the fact that I like mercedes, blondes, whisky and hourglass-shaped women so my ideal would be a very curvy blonde, mercedes-driving woman whose father owns a distillery - it might not work for you but that would be my choice and I (importantly) respect yours. That said if she was brute ugly, vegan and wore doc martens but her dad owned Glenmorangie I would possibly be prepared to compromise.
Helmet on, chin strap tightened and hunkered down! Incoming!!

 

[Kevgun]

Surely the most important thing in all this, is being able to accurately use what you have, there is no right or wrong as long as it's legal. a .243 in the right hands is better than a .300 win mag in the wrong hands surely? and Long range is subjective, one mans long range is different to another's. So as long as the shots safe and ethical, lets just get on with it with whatever calibre that maybe.

 

[StephenToast]

You shouldn’t be constantly so upset about the ‘sanctimonious’ attitudes.

it’s in the title of the whole site, the STALKING directory.

Im sure there’s plenty of ‘long range sniper hero’ sites out there.

Wow.

I had this levelled at me because I admitted to shooting some deer. Heaven forbid. I actually have shot deer prior to that event and after. and I will continue to into the future.

I shot the deer in question at ranges of 80 - about 200 yds.

I think I might start a thread where someone can define what "deerstalking" actually means. So far from some of the contributers on this site it sounds like creeping about and looking at things through binoculars. I'm not even sure it constitutes good reason to hold an FAC as it is quite clear that a lot of stalkers never actually shoot anything.

I don't have the necessity to shoot further than 300yds really. Not because I can't see deer that far but because it's rarely safe to do so given the topography here. I don't own a 6.5 Creedmoor. Nor am I likely to but I have found some of the contribution to this thread interesting. Mr 'Knees actually gets out and actually uses his rifle. Whether he is a "deerstalker" or not is another matter but his contribution may help or interest others.

 

[I. Farticus]

Yes - I agree that to get much more than 2700fps you probably need the longer barrel. I even have a 24” barrel on order.

But at the moment everything I shoot at has been falling over as quick as I need it to.

I’ve actually started to think that instead of rebarrelling my CM, I’ll get a PRC made up...

You could try changing powders. 46.7 grains of N560 is pushing 143gr ELD-X at 2700fps out of my 20 1/2" x55 barrel

 

[25 Sharps]

While everyone is understandably interested in the 6.5 Creedmoor v .308 Win comparison and with particular reference to drop and energy at range, can I throw a spanner in the works? I sometimes use a 300wsm - 168gr BST @ 3065fps, 3519 ft.lbs at the muzzle, 1725 ft.lbs @ 500yards, 100 yard zero gives 37.9" (7.2 moa) drop at 500 yards. That is a fast, flat, hard hitting round - and yes I think that impact energy counts. Ignoring the valid and interesting technical arguments regarding energy transfer of different bullets etc., I think for deer they are like us - the harder they get hit the quicker they go down and then inevitably 25 Sharps is quite right - dead is dead but in my experience, deer shot with this rifle seem to take a massive hit that puts them down quicker than my .243 and maybe that`s a good thing for them. The only disadvantage I really see with the 300wsm is that the loss of sight picture due to recoil is more pronounced, but it`s really never been a problem. Mine is a heavy rifle but there are plenty of standard weight hunting rifles in this calibre so I`m a bit surprised more don`t use this calibre. At the end of the day it`s a .308 on steroids - brilliant. There are many discussions on recoil, and maybe it`s just that I`m used to it, but I genuinely don`t notice any when I fire. It`s just sight picture that I notice.
Needless to say it is a great long range rifle - love it.
Anyway.....back to the 6.5 Creedmoor v .308Win thing.

Ah but how would your .300 WSM compare against the 6.5 PRC?

 

[Mungo]

You could try changing powders. 46.7 grains of N560 is pushing 143gr ELD-X at 2700fps out of my 20 1/2" x55 barrel

Haven’t started reloading. Still using factory.

But yes - I have a recipe (and all the bits) for RS60 that should give me 2700.

 

[I. Farticus]

Haven’t started reloading. Still using factory.

But yes - I have a recipe (and all the bits) for RS60 that should give me 2700.

I'm lazy (and it really is rocket surgery) so I get HPS-TR to load for me...! We've played around with small increments either side, and this is the most accurate, which is what I'm chasing rather than speed.

 

[Mungo]

I'm lazy (and it really is rocket surgery) so I get HPS-TR to load for me...! We've played around with small increments either side, and this is the most accurate, which is what I'm chasing rather than speed.

I am sorely tempted to get someone else to do it for me! I am both lazy and shockingly clumsy. There is a reason I was banned from multiple labs and became a field ecologist!

I was worried about speed for a while, but the slow factory loads are so accurate and effective that I’ve stopped thinking about it. Much.

 

[The fourth Horseman]

Isn't it strange that a reasonable post can, for some chaps, turn into a piddling competition with more testosterone flowing than at the height of the red rut? In the UK, rifles and calibres, like so many other things are a matter of personal choice but perhaps uniquely their choice is prescribed by firearms licensing policy/guidance which sets out pretty clearly the calibres per quarry. Within those selections you pays your money and you makes your choice, all will work for the various species so the rest including your choice is just opinion (informed or otherwise), hyperbole or clever marketing. Perhaps a rather simple analogy would be the fact that I like mercedes, blondes, whisky and hourglass-shaped women so my ideal would be a very curvy blonde, mercedes-driving woman whose father owns a distillery - it might not work for you but that would be my choice and I (importantly) respect yours. That said if she was brute ugly, vegan and wore doc martens but her dad owned Glenmorangie I would possibly be prepared to compromise.
Helmet on, chin strap tightened and hunkered down! Incoming!!

You forgot to mention the nymphomaniac bit.

 

[I. Farticus]

I am sorely tempted to get someone else to do it for me! I am both lazy and shockingly clumsy. There is a reason I was banned from multiple labs and became a field ecologist!

I was worried about speed for a while, but the slow factory loads are so accurate and effective that I’ve stopped thinking about it. Much.

Have a chat with Matt or any of the team down there. It'll mean a trip to Newent, South Gloucs, but take biscuits and they'll be chuffed to bits. They'll measure OAL and then crack on. I keep all my brass and just resupply them, and if I see 143gr ELD-X come up at a decent price, I buy and get sent direct. They're at Bisley regularly (or were...) so I either meet Matt in the Artist's Rifles or he leaves at Lord Roberts for me to collect. Or, if they've got everything for the job, they could load as you wait in Newent when you first go down - again, good reason to take biccies.
I've thought about doing my own loading, but it's expensive in outlay and time, and I'm happy to get a professional to do it for me as I just don't trust my mind not to wander just when it shouldn't!! I really don't want to be a footnote in the local paper

 

[EddieArran505]

Ah but how would your .300 WSM compare against the 6.5 PRC?

Haven’t a clue!
So many calibres, so little time.
I’ve a mate just finished putting together a 300 PRC and he was testing it yesterday at 1600m. I was supposed to be there helping with a bit of a marketing exercise by......wait for it......filming with my drone. Unfortunately I was unable to attend so will no doubt hear today how he got on, but that is certainly a calibre with a mission - probably not hunting.
Will check out 6.5 PRC so thanks for the pointer.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Surely the most important thing in all this, is being able to accurately use what you have, there is no right or wrong as long as it's legal. a .243 in the right hands is better than a .300 win mag in the wrong hands surely? and Long range is subjective, one mans long range is different to another's. So as long as the shots safe and ethical, lets just get on with it with whatever calibre that maybe.

Amen!

 

[Foxyboy43]

You forgot to mention the nymphomaniac bit.

Thought about it but at my age where would I get a 16 year old and a set of jumpleads?