6.5 Creedmoor Copper Ammunition

[wertyp]

I've been testing some copper factory ammunition in my 6.5 Creed. I've tried Sako PH Blade and Hornady Superformance CX, both 120 grains.
Both are around half inch at 100 and decent ES. The Hornady is averaging 2885 fps in my rifle with the Sako averaging 2749 fps.
Has anyone got experience of either on reds or big fallow? How do they perform? I've used 143 grain ELDX until now.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

I've been testing some copper factory ammunition in my 6.5 Creed. I've tried Sako PH Blade and Hornady Superformance CX, both 120 grains.
Both are around half inch at 100 and decent ES. The Hornady is averaging 2885 fps in my rifle with the Sako averaging 2749 fps.
Has anyone got experience of either on reds or big fallow? How do they perform? I've used 143 grain ELDX until now.

What range are you shooting at? Are you happy with the eld-x? Is there a reason for going to copper?

 

[FISH BOY]

Been using the 120gr Sako Blades for over a year now. Work well on fallow - most bang flops and haven’t had anything make more than 40 yards.

Haven’t stretched them past 180 yards.

 

[wertyp]

What range are you shooting at? Are you happy with the eld-x? Is there a reason for going to copper?

Sub 200 yards mostly. Move to copper as the estate / lease I shoot on is mandating non toxic for shotguns and rifles by 2026. Thought I'd get a head start

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Sub 200 yards mostly. Move to copper as the estate / lease I shoot on is mandating non toxic for shotguns and rifles by 2026. Thought I'd get a head start

If it's mandatory then give the 120g cx a go. I believe they work reasonably well for reds

 

[Heym SR20]

Sako Blades in a 6.5x55 drop big red deer very efficiently. I am not sure that loading them in the 6.5 Creedmoor will make any difference to the terminal effect.

My experIence is with monolithics is that you can afford ti put them a bit further forwards - in line with the foreleg, and about half way up. Meat damage is mich less, but they penetrate well. Slightly forward you take out the CNS as well as the major blood vessels and they drop on the spot stone dead.

Problems arise when you put them a bit far back through the lungs. You don’t have the explosive effect of a soft lead cored bullet. Mind such bullets tend to blow up to quickly if further forwards

 

[Hazlett]

My experience on fallow with Sako Powerhead Blade and S&B TXRG Blue 120gr is at anything over 130 yards if it hits the 5th rib the bullet deflects and often goes through the rumen. But goes straight through 3rd or 4th (my max 200m). So I go for in front of the leg on a perfect broadside.

 

[pzbrook]

I've been testing some copper factory ammunition in my 6.5 Creed. I've tried Sako PH Blade and Hornady Superformance CX, both 120 grains.
Both are around half inch at 100 and decent ES. The Hornady is averaging 2885 fps in my rifle with the Sako averaging 2749 fps.
Has anyone got experience of either on reds or big fallow? How do they perform? I've used 143 grain ELDX until now.

What’s your barrel length? I’d have thought the superperformance would be faster than 2885. Hornady quotes 3050 from a 24 inch barrel

 

[dazrc]

My experience on fallow with Sako Powerhead Blade and S&B TXRG Blue 120gr is at anything over 130 yards if it hits the 5th rib the bullet deflects and often goes through the rumen. But goes straight through 3rd or 4th (my max 200m). So I go for in front of the leg on a perfect broadside.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. My personal experience has been nothing different to lead. in fact Ive had a factory load in lead not exit a couple of times but all my copper has made a full exit. Guess everyone has different experience. I reload all my centerfires now with copper but used factory copper to start. My 6.5 really worked will with the S&B blue energy and last weekend i back to back tested with homelands and the point of impact was the same.

 

[andyk]

I couldn’t get the 6.5 CX to shoot well in my Creed, but have had good results with the 80gr 243 and 165gr GMX in .30-06.

The Hornady ammo does seem a good amount cheaper than Sako, which is why I’ve looked at it as a first call.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Currently I'm reloading Barnes 100 gr TTSX, however I've bought a couple of boxes of these to try.

RWS 6,5 Creedmoor EVOLUTION GREEN 6,0g | RWS Ammunition

RWS 6,5 CREEDMOOR EVO GREEN 6,0G 20ER

rws-ammunition.com

Regards

JCS

 

[dazrc]

The Barnes TTSX 100 gr work well for me so have stuck with them. Good mushroom and weight retention from any ive found.

 

[Mungo]

Currently I'm reloading Barnes 100 gr TTSX, however I've bought a couple of boxes of these to try.

RWS 6,5 Creedmoor EVOLUTION GREEN 6,0g | RWS Ammunition

RWS 6,5 CREEDMOOR EVO GREEN 6,0G 20ER

rws-ammunition.com

Regards

JCS

Careful John - I’ve seen some really poor outcomes with Evo Green recently. Very little expansion and some very long runs, with several lost beasts.

In .308, .30-06 and Creedmoor. Muzzle velocities at the slower end (2550 - 2800).

I don’t trust them now.

 

[DanM]

Personally having used Sako PH blade on Fallow/Roe/Muntjac for a season I’m switching to something else (trialling S&B blue)

The last few big fallow bucks ive shot, theres either been no exit wound (bullet stopped under skin other side) or small exit with very little blood trails to work with. Dead deer nearby but combined with in my opinion, less shot reaction I’ve lost confidence in them.

Normal woodland stalking ranges 50-150m with H/L shots half way up along foreleg. Very frustrating as very accurate in my rifle but just isn’t doing what I expect….especially at that price! Maybe I should have changed POA as suggested above.

 

[Scipio]

Sako Blades in a 6.5x55 drop big red deer very efficiently. I am not sure that loading them in the 6.5 Creedmoor will make any difference to the terminal effect.

My experIence is with monolithics is that you can afford ti put them a bit further forwards - in line with the foreleg, and about half way up. Meat damage is mich less, but they penetrate well. Slightly forward you take out the CNS as well as the major blood vessels and they drop on the spot stone dead.

Problems arise when you put them a bit far back through the lungs. You don’t have the explosive effect of a soft lead cored bullet. Mind such bullets tend to blow up to quickly if further forwards

Hey @Heym SR20 , in line with the front edge of the foreleg you mean?

 

[NickJ]

Sako Blades in a 6.5x55 drop big red deer very efficiently. I am not sure that loading them in the 6.5 Creedmoor will make any difference to the terminal effect.

My experIence is with monolithics is that you can afford ti put them a bit further forwards - in line with the foreleg, and about half way up. Meat damage is mich less, but they penetrate well. Slightly forward you take out the CNS as well as the major blood vessels and they drop on the spot stone dead.

Problems arise when you put them a bit far back through the lungs. You don’t have the explosive effect of a soft lead cored bullet. Mind such bullets tend to blow up to quickly if further forwards

Advice from a pro on the hill in Invernes-shire where they shoot many reds with a 6.5cm 'with 6.5cm copper you want to be breaking bone.' Another pro in Angus who uses the same calibre in copper 'aim where the neck meets the shoulder'

 

[Heym SR20]

Advice from a pro on the hill in Invernes-shire where they shoot many reds with a 6.5cm 'with 6.5cm copper you want to be breaking bone.' Another pro in Angus who uses the same calibre in copper 'aim where the neck meets the shoulder'

Putting then in line with The foreleg- err towards the frontside will result in bone being broken, which in itself will cause more damage. But the key hitting the shoulder blade will transmit a lot of shock to the CNS. There is a huge bundle of nerves under the shoulder blades, which connects into the spinal column. Giving these a big thump will knock out the system resulting in the deer dropping on the spot. In the meantime the bullet will have gone on to severe the heart, aorta and other major blood vessels. By the time the animal starts to regain consciousness after the blow to the CNS it will bled out due to the damage to the heart.

Difference between Roe and Reds is that reds are a lot bigger. A bullet causes a permanent cavity - due to bullet, but also a temporary shock cavity which four to six inches in diameter. On a Roe, that temporary cavity will cover most of the kill zone, on bigger deer not so much.

I was reminded of this the other day, by a red hind and good sized stag calf the other day. They clearly hadn’t read the rules, nor had I. I rushed the shots, with the hind the 7mm Fox bullet went in below the shoulder blade straight through the heart. The calf jumped on receiving the shot and went into a headlong run clearing a fence and went out of site. Meanwhile the hind had run 20 yards and staggered and fell over dead.

On gralloching, bullet had split the heart in two - she was dead.

Meanwhile the calf - found a big pool of blood in the bracken. Took a while to find (no dog with me) but it had gone down a gorge into a stream resulting in a 200m uphill drag.

Shot placement was a little far back but still massive bleed.

Would I have had a different result with a different bullet - possibly but probably not.

Would better shooting have resulted in a much easier extraction and me not loosing buckets of sweat and needing defribilation etc - almost certainly.

I made schoolboy errors and got my butt kicked.

 

[Rutland lad]

Putting then in line with The foreleg- err towards the frontside will result in bone being broken, which in itself will cause more damage. But the key hitting the shoulder blade will transmit a lot of shock to the CNS. There is a huge bundle of nerves under the shoulder blades, which connects into the spinal column. Giving these a big thump will knock out the system resulting in the deer dropping on the spot. In the meantime the bullet will have gone on to severe the heart, aorta and other major blood vessels. By the time the animal starts to regain consciousness after the blow to the CNS it will bled out due to the damage to the heart.

Difference between Roe and Reds is that reds are a lot bigger. A bullet causes a permanent cavity - due to bullet, but also a temporary shock cavity which four to six inches in diameter. On a Roe, that temporary cavity will cover most of the kill zone, on bigger deer not so much.

I was reminded of this the other day, by a red hind and good sized stag calf the other day. They clearly hadn’t read the rules, nor had I. I rushed the shots, with the hind the 7mm Fox bullet went in below the shoulder blade straight through the heart. The calf jumped on receiving the shot and went into a headlong run clearing a fence and went out of site. Meanwhile the hind had run 20 yards and staggered and fell over dead.

On gralloching, bullet had split the heart in two - she was dead.

Meanwhile the calf - found a big pool of blood in the bracken. Took a while to find (no dog with me) but it had gone down a gorge into a stream resulting in a 200m uphill drag.

Shot placement was a little far back but still massive bleed.

Would I have had a different result with a different bullet - possibly but probably not.

Would better shooting have resulted in a much easier extraction and me not loosing buckets of sweat and needing defribilation etc - almost certainly.

I made schoolboy errors and got my butt kicked.

Nice to read an honest account - most accounts regarding non lead ammo blame the bullet straight off.

 

[NickJ]

Putting then in line with The foreleg- err towards the frontside will result in bone being broken, which in itself will cause more damage. But the key hitting the shoulder blade will transmit a lot of shock to the CNS. There is a huge bundle of nerves under the shoulder blades, which connects into the spinal column. Giving these a big thump will knock out the system resulting in the deer dropping on the spot. In the meantime the bullet will have gone on to severe the heart, aorta and other major blood vessels. By the time the animal starts to regain consciousness after the blow to the CNS it will bled out due to the damage to the heart.

Difference between Roe and Reds is that reds are a lot bigger. A bullet causes a permanent cavity - due to bullet, but also a temporary shock cavity which four to six inches in diameter. On a Roe, that temporary cavity will cover most of the kill zone, on bigger deer not so much.

I was reminded of this the other day, by a red hind and good sized stag calf the other day. They clearly hadn’t read the rules, nor had I. I rushed the shots, with the hind the 7mm Fox bullet went in below the shoulder blade straight through the heart. The calf jumped on receiving the shot and went into a headlong run clearing a fence and went out of site. Meanwhile the hind had run 20 yards and staggered and fell over dead.

On gralloching, bullet had split the heart in two - she was dead.

Meanwhile the calf - found a big pool of blood in the bracken. Took a while to find (no dog with me) but it had gone down a gorge into a stream resulting in a 200m uphill drag.

Shot placement was a little far back but still massive bleed.

Would I have had a different result with a different bullet - possibly but probably not.

Would better shooting have resulted in a much easier extraction and me not loosing buckets of sweat and needing defribilation etc - almost certainly.

I made schoolboy errors and got my butt kicked.

All I'd add to that shot placement is the fact that as @Selous pointed out to me when I switched to copper five seasons ago (he's been on copper for over 20!) the old classic heart shot (in line with the back of the foreleg) with copper risks bursting the rumen as the heart lies close to the rumen and copper has large petals or fragments Vs the multiple tiny fragment from lead

Whatever deduction one might get from the dealer for a 'smashed shoulder' it's better than a total carcass refusal (or potentially charge for disposal) for a deer with green in it (and since the FSA review 18 months ago the vet's tollerance on green is zero)

 

[Heym SR20]

All I'd add to that shot placement is the fact that as @Selous pointed out to me when I switched to copper five seasons ago (he's been on copper for over 20!) the old classic heart shot (in line with the back of the foreleg) with copper risks bursting the rumen as the heart lies close to the rumen and copper has large petals or fragments Vs the multiple tiny fragment from lead

Whatever deduction one might get from the dealer for a 'smashed shoulder' it's better than a total carcass refusal (or potentially charge for disposal) for a deer with green in it (and since the FSA review 18 months ago the vet's tollerance on green is zero)

Agreed. Re the smashed shoulder, one day the Game dealers will realise that with a copper bullet there is very little actual wastage of meat. There is not the fragmentation and huge number of microscopic particles of lead that you get with a lead bullet. Instead you have a hole and perhaps some bone fragments. The vast majority of the shoulder meat can still be recovered and diced up / go through the mincer.

Equally the remaining bits can just go to normal waste and will not be viewed as contaminated waste with high cost of associated disposal.

I suspect unicorns and flying pigs may be on the quarry list before this happens, but one day the market will sort itself out.

A friend who shoots a lot of deer was telling me that his major game dealer is now only taking non lead shot deer. They xray all carcasses and operate one strike and out policy. Ie if you should send in a lead shot carcass you get one chance. Next time they will cease dealing with you.