6.5CM V's .270Win

[CarlW]

The man who dies with the most toys...wins!

 

[Primate]

I shoot a 270, 6.5-284 and a 6.5x47. They will all do the job. I would say the 6.5-284 is the best out of the lot but it's not a fair comparison because the 270 is factory rifle using factory ammo. The x47 is factory rifle using home loads.

I would say in order of priority is the following, shot placement, bullet design and linked to design is bullet speed and therefore terminal effect.

No use having high power if you cant put that power where you want it. I have seen a deer hit in the back foot with a 3006 by a client, the shot didn't kill it but the dog did.

Bullet design. I developed a home load for a 260 that was really accurate. I thought these just couldnt fail. Well they did if it was a rib to rib shot. It was a pencil hole in and out. They were fine if it was head, neck or high shoulder. So i moved away from them

I have used 130 sst in the 270 and these were relly good killers. Almost all deer were bag flops. I am now forced to use copper ammo in this. They do kill but not as good as the sst.

Out of interest what was the bullet in the .260 load?

 

[User00033]

Having consulted this for my dissertation research, I believe page 4 has the information you might need.https://www.face.eu/sites/default/files/norway_en.pdf

Thanks Jelly and @Border. Very interesting reading. I see the same website has the Finnish regulations as well.

I did some calculations and the bottom line is that a standard factory load from Hornady with the 140 grain SST is legal for moose, red deer, follow deer, wild reindeer, wild boar, wild sheep, musk ox, wolf and bear. Only just, but it’s legal. Brian’s hotter ELD-X load is comfortably legal by some margin.

And that’s really where the argument should begin and end. If it is legal, it’s ok.

I like the way the Scandinavians have set up their laws, with the minimum energy requirement being specified at 100m. I can see how the old school soft shooting ammunition is rendered illegal, and potentially short barrels.

 

[ejg]

You’re being far too black and white Edi. You’ve got a real chip on yer shoulder about the Swede and the old soft shooting ammo with crap bullets you fellas used to get in Ireland, and I think it clouds your judgement. Yes it was crap ammo and I totally get it, but honestly mate you’re barking up the wrong tree. I know a couple of professional Swede shooters here, I’ll tell them they are fools, see what they say! One of them is the fella whose pictures I’ve posted on here before, he controls the Eastern Bay of Plenty sambar herd in the commercial forestry blocks, that’s his job, 40 odd years in professional deer control, and he uses a 6.5x55. And those mature sambar stags are freakin’ enormous, much heavier than reds and there’s no suffering involved, or foolishness. He used to use Sierra bullets I think but now its ELD-X at 2,850 ft./s. Take a look again at the gralloch photos - utter devastation, right where it matters.

There’s bugger all power difference between a modern .308 150gr and a 6.5 143gr, in home loaded form they both run give or take at the same velocity. At 100yds no elk, sambar or anything else is going to know the difference. There’s no need to get onto the whole bigger bullet, bigger hole thing again, or anyone else about the high SD of the 6.5. It’s all about where the bullet strikes and it’s trajectory through the animal, that’s all.

Elk are just big heavy deer, no kevlar or carbon fibre, they are not immune to mid weight bullets hitting them at typical hunting rifle impact speeds. They are no different to any ungulate, careful shooting with a mid-power rifle and they’re down in short order. Interesting what our resident Norwegian says about the attitude towards the Swede there eh. I wonder what the muzzle energy of Brian’s sambar busting ELD-X is.

Suggesting a large cervid shooter is a fool for using a 6.5 wouldn’t win you many beers at the bar down here mate, 6.5s in many different forms are used for all the big animals and have been for decades. 90% of the 6.5 shooters I know directly and indirectly are hand loading their cartridges to extract hard hitting power matched with excellent penetration. What’s not to like??? Time to move on from that argument I think.

I know and fully respect your preference for .30 cals, but it simply isn’t the be all and end all of shooting large deer.

While we’re arguing, have a hunt for the photo of the heavy as red stag I posted a few days ago, shot with the baby 6.5 from 200m+, the Grendel.

Just looked through a list of cartridges and imagined what it would look like if we cut it off at the Swede, as it seems anything bigger is not needed when one looks at some replies. No matter what one say's I do not think the 6.5x55 is the right cartridge for an animal the weight of a moose/elk. The only reason why people use them is possibly because the Elk runs away and not after the hunter. Who will use a 6.5x55 at cape buff? just about the same weight as a large Moose so should be fine or? What would the hunter say if the back up PH has a 6.5x55? I think it is more down the line of "if it won't go after you it does not matter" the pain in the shoulder from recoil is the more important.
Anyway I built myself two 6.5 CM rifles last year just to see how they compare to my usual 308, 243,300wm on Sika deer. 25 deer later my verdict is it does not take deer down as well as the 308, blood trail if it existed was not as good and deer ran further. We have never used a dog as much as this year. Good point was that I hit very well and reliably well even with a little wind and longer ranges. From that point I love the cartridge and will work on a different shot placement as well as trying different ammo for next season.
Just looking at what is legal is not always right, just compare countries are they all right and wrong at the same time? Min we can use 22-250 on red deer, NZ even 223 or? UK 243, Germany 6.5 etc. all have different views however they all agree on that too small is no good.
edi

 

[rem284]

Out of interest what was the bullet in the .260 load?

130 vld

 

[Primate]

130 vld

Thanks. Not a bullet I've tried myself. Always good to know. Cheers.

 

[Matt.]

The man who dies with the most toys...wins!

This is 100% my goal in life!

 

[booradley]

I’d heard for years that the Swede is the most popular cartridge for alg/moose in Sweden so around five years ago I looked online to see if there was any anecdotal evidence backing the claim up. Very little info was to be found except for one survey I found. I don’t remember some of the stuff but the gist was .308 is the cartridge used the most and 6.5x55 was fifth or sixth. While the adage undoubtedly was true for many years it hasn’t been so for quite some time.

While I truly love my 6.5x55 I would not use it on red deer, elk(wapiti), sambar and moose(alg) unless it was all I had.

 

[BigPat]

I’d heard for years that the Swede is the most popular cartridge for alg/moose in Sweden so around five years ago I looked online to see if there was any anecdotal evidence backing the claim up. Very little info was to be found except for one survey I found. I don’t remember some of the stuff but the gist was .308 is the cartridge used the most and 6.5x55 was fifth or sixth. While the adage undoubtedly was true for many years it hasn’t been so for quite some time.

While I truly love my 6.5x55 I would not use it on red deer, elk(wapiti), sambar and moose(alg) unless it was all I had.

Can't comment on the others but I have taken many big Red's with the 6.5x55se and there really is not any difference in its real-life ability to that of my .308win.

 

[Southern]

200yds? Those of us that shoot deer routinely at double that distance and more would suggest that power is nice to have, but shot placement is far, far more important. And therein lies the challenge for the individual shooter, to work out (a) how much power he can handle whilst guaranteeing accuracy, and (b) where best to shoot the animal so that it collapses very quickly.

Sadly in far too many cases in my experience, power has a proportional relationship to accuracy, one goes up whilst the other goes down!
......
Bigger is never automatically better.

I am not disagreeing with this, or any of the rest you said. Inside 200 yards, trajectory is not factor for almost any hunting cartridge. There is enough power from a .257 Roberts or 6.5x54mm to cleanly kill big deer. You don't need to fret about this or that Wonder Bullet, because a RN of the same weight will shoot to the same spot for less money, and do the job just as well as any.

The reason I mention large deer, like reds and elk, and wild boar, is that the bones are heavier, and the boar have a thick shield of gristle. The .270 with a vanilla bullet has at 100 yards more reach, with the same energy, as a 6.5 CM and 6.5x55. That means they have the velocity to open up a stoutly constructed bullet. I plan to shoot game inside 200 yards, but if there is any chance of having to reach out to 300 or 400, give me a .30-06 or .270.

 

[booradley]

Can't comment on the others but I have taken many big Red's with the 6.5x55se and there really is not any difference in its real-life ability to that of my .308win.

In retrospect I should have left Red Deer out of my post. I’ve never shot one for one thing. I was thinking though about the really large ones from New Zealand and other locales that nip at the heels of American elk in size and occasionally are the same size. If my 6.5x55 were all I had I would hunt Red Deer with it. If I were hunting big ones and had an option I’d use a more powerful cartridge even if there is no real world difference between a 6.5x55 and say 30-06 for Red Deer. Psychologically there is to me.