6.5CM V's .270Win

[North Stalker]

Having used a .270 for the last how ever many years. Thinking of a change, I did try a 6.5CM and was pleasantly surprised how tame it was.

For those that have the 2 listed, opinions please. Red, Sika and Roe, possibly the opportunity for pigs, not far from me now. I don't and won't home load, so not interested in hearing about that. Factory ammo only. Shooting out to 450-500m.
I'm not interested in hearing what "Bob down the pub said", I'm only interested in first hand experience from people who own or have owned both.

Thanks

 

[finnbear270]

270 or 25-06 for me.

 

[tusker]

If you are thinking pigs , min. calibre reccomended is 270. I think this is a great calibre. The 6.5 creed is the new kid on the block so is very expensive. Also ammo not as plentyfull as 270. the 270 not as popular so cheaper rifles on the second hand market. I have never found the 270 to be wanting from fox to Kudu.
Tusker

 

[North Stalker]

270 or 25-06 for me.

I didn’t mention a 25-06, this is what causes so many threads to wander off on here. Only asking specifically about those two and from those who own or have owned them both.

Thanks

 

[paul o']

I'v got both 270 factory fed power shock 150 was ok ,my own loads are better.
6.5 cm is my long range target rifle and tried out the the 143 eldx but only on melons at 300 - 600

 

[CarlW]

I never thought the day would come, @North Stalker , that you would consider betraying that .270 of yours. You'll be eating salad next, my friend...

 

[Mungo]

I have shot both, moderated and unmoderated, roe and fallow. My observations:

1. Unmoderated, there is a very large difference in recoil, as you’d expect. Moderated, there is a difference, but not so you’d really notice ‘in the heat of the moment’. When moderated, both allow you to easily see the shot strike.

2. There is quite a big difference in drop. This one can catch you out if you’re used to the .270 and not worrying about holdover out to 200+ metres. CM drops substantially more, so you will need to be on the ball with your range estimation and holdover or dialling if you plan to shoot past 200. Not at issue at ‘normal’ stalking ranges, though.

3. Conversely, there is an even bigger difference in drift, with 140 or 143gr CM bullets drifting substantially less than 130gr in .270. This one really is an eye opener - up to 10cm less drift in a 10mph wind at 200m. I love this aspect of the CM. Drop is predictable if you know the range, wind often isn’t. However, this is highly dependent on the bullets you use in each calibre.

4. Killing power. This one is very much dependent on which bullet you use and the barrel length of your rifle. A short barrelled CM used with a hard bullet or a cheap conventional soft point will give you noticeably more runners than a .270. A long barrelled CM, or a short barrelled CM used with something like eldx or eldm bullets is every bit as effective as a .270, especially once you start to stretch the range.

5. Ammo availability. This has changed very rapidly over the last 5 years as the popularity of the CM has taken off. I would say it is now easier to find a good variety of factory loads for CM than for .270. It is MUCH easier to find really outstanding high performance loads (like the Hornady Precision Hunter) for CM. Toward the end of the period I was using a .270 it was starting to become very hard to find ammo reliably - you had to take whatever was available rather than what you wanted.

6. Guns. As with ammo, because of the explosion in popularity of the CM, it is MUCH easier to find new rifles in CM, by all the major manufacturers, in a huge array of styles. .270 is offered by fewer, and the range of styles is very much more limited.

Overall: I like the .270, but I like the CM more.

However, I cannot stress enough that all the differences are very small indeed, and ultimately probably close to meaningless in most field conditions.

 

[Primate]

Having used a .270 for the last how ever many years. Thinking of a change, I did try a 6.5CM and was pleasantly surprised how tame it was.

For those that have the 2 listed, opinions please. Red, Sika and Roe, possibly the opportunity for pigs, not far from me now. I don't and won't home load, so not interested in hearing about that. Factory ammo only. Shooting out to 450-500m.
I'm not interested in hearing what "Bob down the pub said", I'm only interested in first hand experience from people who own or have owned both.

Thanks

If I were you I'd go with 6.5CM being someone who doesn't reload. You'll probably more likely to find a factory load that is more accurate out to 500m in CM than in .270. Personally I wouldn't be confident in finding a load for 500m shots on quarry unless I had loaded it myself in any calibre but if your needs must then I'm sure 6.5CM would be the way to go. If it shot half as accurately as my .260 you'd be onto a winner. Good luck, it's always lottery with factory ammo, you're never ever going to have as accurate a gun as someone who reloads.

 

[Deermanagement]

Have both, 6.5 Cr and .270 Haven't used the 6.5 as yet but it's a 6.5 and will do the same job as all other 6.5's. Sat in a high seat last night with a colleague and he asked me if my binos were rangefinders. I answered that they were not and I've always felt that if I needed them, they were too far away, therefore, take your pick of calibres unless you are a deer sniper.

Both are moderated and both are comfortable to shoot but the 6.5 will have the edge in terms of what is easier to shoot and if I could only have the one, it would be the 6.5, but I'm not shooting pigs. Not sure how 140g pills from the 6.5 would do pigs but they are usually shoot at reasonably close range so I'm sure the right bullet would be fine. Driven pigs...... a different game I'm sure, and I think I'd be happier with the heavier slugs in a .270

I think you would need to shoot many deer in both calibres in very similar circumstances to get a reasonable comparison, which I haven't done, but without pigs, def go with the 6.5 Cr., with pigs, if it's with someone, you may have to go .270 and if it's abroad, again go .270, but if it's pigs on your own ground, it's your choice.

 

[North Stalker]

I have shot both, moderated and unmoderated, roe and fallow. My observations:

1. Unmoderated, there is a very large difference in recoil, as you’d expect. Moderated, there is a difference, but not so you’d really notice ‘in the heat of the moment’. When moderated, both allow you to easily see the shot strike.

2. There is quite a big difference in drop. This one can catch you out if you’re used to the .270 and not worrying about holdover out to 200+ metres. CM drops substantially more, so you will need to be on the ball with your range estimation and holdover or dialling if you plan to shoot past 200. Not at issue at ‘normal’ stalking ranges, though.

3. Conversely, there is an even bigger difference in drift, with 140 or 143gr CM bullets drifting substantially less than 130gr in .270. This one really is an eye opener - up to 10cm less drift in a 10mph wind at 200m. I love this aspect of the CM. Drop is predictable if you know the range, wind often isn’t. However, this is highly dependent on the bullets you use in each calibre.

4. Killing power. This one is very much dependent on which bullet you use and the barrel length of your rifle. A short barrelled CM used with a hard bullet or a cheap conventional soft point will give you noticeably more runners than a .270. A long barrelled CM, or a short barrelled CM used with something like eldx or eldm bullets is every bit as effective as a .270, especially once you start to stretch the range.

5. Ammo availability. This has changed very rapidly over the last 5 years as the popularity of the CM has taken off. I would say it is now easier to find a good variety of factory loads for CM than for .270. It is MUCH easier to find really outstanding high performance loads (like the Hornady Precision Hunter) for CM. Toward the end of the period I was using a .270 it was starting to become very hard to find ammo reliably - you had to take whatever was available rather than what you wanted.

6. Guns. As with ammo, because of the explosion in popularity of the CM, it is MUCH easier to find new rifles in CM, by all the major manufacturers, in a huge array of styles. .270 is offered by fewer, and the range of styles is very much more limited.

Overall: I like the .270, but I like the CM more.

However, I cannot stress enough that all the differences are very small indeed, and ultimately probably close to meaningless in most field conditions.

That's a very good reply. Thank You.
Ranging is no issue, it would be topped with a DS, if I go for it.

 

[North Stalker]

I'v got both 270 factory fed power shock 150 was ok ,my own loads are better.
6.5 cm is my long range target rifle and tried out the the 143 eldx but only on melons at 300 - 600

Were any of the melons runners?

 

[North Stalker]

I never thought the day would come, @North Stalker , that you would consider betraying that .270 of yours. You'll be eating salad next, my friend...

It's tempting, if I could run both rifles, I wouldn't hesitate, but it's an either/or scenario. My days of Pop Star wages are long gone.
As for salad, did I tell you I was Vegan?

 

[User00033]

Just look at the numbers. They remove the subjectivity of personal opinion. Some of the comments above are accurate, others a lot less so.

So let's look at factory loadings using the same type of bullets. Assume both rifles have a 24" barrel.

Hornady Precision Hunter and the 143gr and 145gr ELD-X



Hornady Superformance and the 129gr and 130gr SST



Lastly, consider felt recoil for each of the above four loads:



So now you can see what the difference is.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is an accurate, low recoiling, highly efficient cartridge with plenty of killing power to well past 500m.

The .270 Winchester is an accurate, much heavier recoiling, less efficient cartridge with even more killing power to well past 500m.

These numbers use Hornady data, others will vary. But the overall performance ratios with remain relatively constant.

Ignore those that say the 6.5 doesn't have enough power to kill cleanly at 500m, it's complete bollocks. Watch some of my videos. Bullet placement is everything. I want lower recoil for improved accuracy at longer ranges. Others are happy to shoot more powerful rifles and have excellent results.

Use both, keep it interesting. A favourite will emerge over time. Always does.

 

[North Stalker]

Just look at the numbers. They remove the subjectivity of personal opinion. Some of the comments above are accurate, others a lot less so.

So let's look at factory loadings using the same type of bullets. Assume both rifles have a 24" barrel.

Hornady Precision Hunter and the 143gr and 145gr ELD-X

View attachment 151175

Hornady Superformance and the 129gr and 130gr SST

View attachment 151174

Lastly, consider felt recoil for each of the above four loads:

View attachment 151176

So now you can see what the difference is.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is an accurate, low recoiling, highly efficient cartridge with plenty of killing power to well past 500m.

The .270 Winchester is an accurate, much heavier recoiling, less efficient cartridge with even more killing power to well past 500m.

These numbers use Hornady data, others will vary. But the overall performance ratios with remain relatively constant.

Ignore those that say the 6.5 doesn't have enough power to kill cleanly at 500m, it's complete bollocks. Watch some of my videos. Bullet placement is everything. I want lower recoil for improved accuracy at longer ranges. Others are happy to shoot more powerful rifles and have excellent results.

Use both, keep it interesting. A favourite will emerge over time. Always does.

Another good quality reply.

Thank You

 

[John Gryphon]

Ignore those that say the 6.5 doesn't have enough power to kill cleanly at 500m,

Well that my friend depends entirely on what the animal to be shot at 500 m`s actually is.

 

[Mungo]

Just look at the numbers. They remove the subjectivity of personal opinion. Some of the comments above are accurate, others a lot less so.

So let's look at factory loadings using the same type of bullets. Assume both rifles have a 24" barrel.

Hornady Precision Hunter and the 143gr and 145gr ELD-X

View attachment 151175

A much more useful comparison is between 143gr Eldx in CM against a standard factory 130gr soft point in .270. At the moment it’s close to impossible (if not actually impossible) to find the 145gr eldx in .270 here.

If it were straightforward to find factory eldx loads in .270, I would probably still have one. Now that I’m starting to reload, I may go back again. However, having had a bit of a look, there are almost no guns available of the spec I would want, and it would have to be a semi custom job.

 

[Smellydog]

270 all day long.

 

[Heym SR20]

Very simple answer to 270 vs 6.5 CM - its that old fangled 7x57 - Smooth shooting and all the thump you need - best of both really!

 

[paul o']

nope i only do head shots even at silly ranges 1715202, member: 16483"]
Were any of the melons runners?
[/QUOTE]

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Deer legal? Check
Ammo Available? Check
Rifles Available? Check
Deer in Season? Check

go stalking.....
the deer don't read ammo boxes
The difference in external ballistics at deer stalking ranges is largely theoretical and usually of no consequence to the average stalker.
Drop and Drift differences often require a level of shooting accuracy and wind calling accuracy that would be unusual if not impossible to demonstrate from a single cold bore shot in field conditions