6mm Creedmoor and sooty case heads

[scotch_egg]

I envy your extensive fleet of firearms!
I use mine on anything from crows to fallow and with a 103gr eldx doing just shy of 3200fps it is very capable…. just rather unwieldy!

On average it is 25fps loss per inch.

I haven’t got any 103hr eld-x but I have some 107gr Sierra MatchKing. I will load some up and run them over the chrono at the same time and see what velocity I get. Might give you real world figures.

 

[samdk]

On average it is 25fps loss per inch.

I haven’t got any 103hr eld-x but I have some 107gr Sierra MatchKing. I will load some up and run them over the chrono at the same time and see what velocity I get. Might give you real world figures.

Thanks, that would be a great help!

I have been contemplating it all summer so I will likely wait until the fallow season is over before I take the plunge.

 

[Sharpie]

It is exactly the same with 4f black powder. Every one now believes it's only for a flintlock pans and if you use it as the main charge is gonna blow your gun up. As of yet no one has demonstrated it will blow a gun up but still this jibba jabber prevails.

If really interested, start here: Black powder internal ballistics simulator and discuss. Rather than digress on this thread.

@borbal has created something rather unique that might answer some questions.

 

[Smellydog]

Action of a rifle let go Saturday afternoon at a German range, shooter was badly injured and a bystander killed. Rifle/bits were taken in. Apparently an older rifle.
Things do have their limits.
edi

What rifle?
What calibre?
What powder?
What charge weight?
Which bullet?

Without the above information the tragic event is of no use here but if I were a betting man my bet would be on it either being;
To much or double a fast powder charge or;
Not enough of a spherical powder( trying to economise).
Another bet I would be willing to place is that the rifle would not blow up going over book by a couple of grains. If they did proof loads would destroy them regularly!

 

[Steff]

What rifle?
What calibre?
What powder?
What charge weight?
Which bullet?

Without the above information the tragic event is of no use here but if I were a betting man my bet would be on it either being;
To much or double a fast powder charge or;
Not enough of a spherical powder( trying to economise).
Another bet I would be willing to place is that the rifle would not blow up going over book by a couple of grains. If they did proof loads would destroy them regularly!

I wouldn't place a bet just yet. There are no more details available at this stage. The only thing mentioned was that the rifle was an 'older model'.

 

[NP435]

There is absolutely no contamination from grease or lube. The bolt was also clear and didn’t show anything.



How much higher? The p-max programme indicates I am over 10% under max.

Clean necks and soot on the head, very interesting I have been a handloader from the age of 17,I am 60 now never seen this before

 

[NP435]

Action of a rifle let go Saturday afternoon at a German range, shooter was badly injured and a bystander killed. Rifle/bits were taken in. Apparently an older rifle.
Things do have their limits.
edi

While I agree with you, I load for and shoot a 6.5x55 made in 1912 I stay within published data and no issues. One of my 1903 Springfields is from 1930 ish and i shoot normal service M-1 ball loads, again zero issue. The one older action is from 1935 Oberndorf M-98 barreled in 22-250, max book loads and again zero issues. I always wonder about the why things blow up often the details are unknown.

 

[ejg]

While I agree with you, I load for and shoot a 6.5x55 made in 1912 I stay within published data and no issues. One of my 1903 Springfields is from 1930 ish and i shoot normal service M-1 ball loads, again zero issue. The one older action is from 1935 Oberndorf M-98 barreled in 22-250, max book loads and again zero issues. I always wonder about the why things blow up often the details are unknown.

Just if something happens and especially bystanders get hurt questions will be asked, maybe even so far as "why do you have to use rifles as old as that" or rifles with unknown history etc. Never mind experimental loads.
Talking to gunsmiths who are used to old 98 Mauser conversions etc. It seems that the steel quality and hardening state of actions can vary hugely, some can shatter like glass. Newer rifles undergo better quality control and better steels in most cases.
Overall I think it would not harm to introduce a reloading course for those starting to reload. Just too many things that can go wrong, too much wrong information out there. This thread is another example.
edi

 

[Ronin]

Scotch

Use Geoffrey Kolbe’s PMax program - use the true case capacity by seating a bullet to desired depth minus primer and powder - weigh , then inject water to primer pocket level and weigh

The difference is the case capacity

You should get an accurate reflection of velocity and more importantly pressure from there on

 

[ejg]

What rifle?
What calibre?
What powder?
What charge weight?
Which bullet?

Without the above information the tragic event is of no use here but if I were a betting man my bet would be on it either being;
To much or double a fast powder charge or;
Not enough of a spherical powder( trying to economise).
Another bet I would be willing to place is that the rifle would not blow up going over book by a couple of grains. If they did proof loads would destroy them regularly!

Well, the first information we have is that all precautions that the shooter applied did not work and of course others could be in the same zone. Yes I agree it would be good to know what happened and why it let go. Anyway old rifles normally don't get re-proofed as they age or wear or weaken over time. Years ago I checked the bolt on a 6.5x55 that had blown primers due to over pressure loading. The bolt seemed to have one or two small cracks seen with UV light and fluorescent penetrating liquid, the guy was happy to shoot on with the rifle although I was against it.
edi

 

[Jamsie]

Well, the first information we have is that all precautions that the shooter applied did not work and of course others could be in the same zone. Yes I agree it would be good to know what happened and why it let go. Anyway old rifles normally don't get re-proofed as they age or wear or weaken over time. Years ago I checked the bolt on a 6.5x55 that had blown primers due to over pressure loading. The bolt seemed to have one or two small cracks seen with UV light and fluorescent penetrating liquid, the guy was happy to shoot on with the rifle although I was against it.
edi

I agree that the precautions applied appear to have been insufficient in this case. Beyond that, anything else is pure speculation and although we are all interested in what happened, it's a waiting game until all the evidence is gathered, examined and a conclusion reached. As someone who uses an 'older' rifle, I am keen to know what caused this tragic incident as I'm sure are many others.

Jamsie

 

[Foxyboy43]

Terrible tragedy indeed. Let’s hope it was not a result of carelessness or lack of maintenance.
I have seen this only once in all the years I have been shooting - a 44 magnum exploded in the bay next to me - bits of it embedded in the baffles either side of the shooter and he was left holding the grip and top strap. The rest of it went down the range! Had it not been for the baffles I would have got a face full of it! This was down to gross overloading by a total idiot.
Much more recently a local chap had a piece of pistol stuck in his neck just missing the jugular vein. Lucky man but quite a story to tell and a scar to prove it. Police are on the case so investigation ongoing…
Timely reminder of the need for absolute safety!

 

[Smellydog]

Terrible tragedy indeed. Let’s hope it was not a result of carelessness or lack of maintenance.
I have seen this only once in all the years I have been shooting - a 44 magnum exploded in the bay next to me - bits of it embedded in the baffles either side of the shooter and he was left holding the grip and top strap. The rest of it went down the range! Had it not been for the baffles I would have got a face full of it! This was down to gross overloading by a total idiot.
Much more recently a local chap had a piece of pistol stuck in his neck just missing the jugular vein. Lucky man but quite a story to tell and a scar to prove it. Police are on the case so investigation ongoing…
Timely reminder of the need for absolute safety!

With pistol cases it is very easy to do the above. Usually in the magnums a suitable magnum powder won't necessarily blow it apart.
Its when one is loading for economical loads on fast powder. Just a few grains at that. The accident comes about when someone drops twice the charge in the a case by accident.
Usually from bad loading practice with a single stage press.

I always put my primed cases in the tray primer up. All charged cases are the right way up so I know which ones have been charged by logic.

 

[Davsim]

Once had an issue with obturation on the neck of my 6mm creedmoor cases . Using hornady brass as that was all that was available at the time using n160 switched to n555 and have not had an issue since .

 

[Foxyboy43]

Absolutely right. 3.8 gns of Bullseye - sweet in the .357 but 7.6 gns