7mm Mauser and 6.5x55

8x57

Distinguished Member
I'm at a loss for words . So I won't say anymore .

AB
Come off it, it was clearly a wind up right from the very start.
The guy said he was an experienced re-loader yet doesn't know what cartridge his rifle is chambered for. I would like to know what dies he uses when reloading for his hybrid. :cuckoo:
 

LeftHandGuy

Well-Known Member
Come off it, it was clearly a wind up right from the very start.
The guy said he was an experienced re-loader yet doesn't know what cartridge his rifle is chambered for. I would like to know what dies he uses when reloading for his hybrid. :cuckoo:

Don't think it's a wind-up. I think the OP just didn't realize his Swedish Mauser had been re-barreled in 7x57. The person who sold him the rifle obviously knew since he supplied the right ammo with it. Pretty sure he used the 7x57 dies too.....
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Whether a wind up of not, you do need to be really careful to make sure barrel markings match what you think it is and what you think you are buying.

Saying that any bullet will be a tight fit in the barrel. But bullets, especially lead cored are really quite soft. Vintage rifle enthusiasts are always swaging bullets down to an obsolete calibre. And it can be done on a simple reloading press - whilst that might be a few hundred pounds of prussure, its no 50,000 psi of a centrefire rifle. If you did chamber say a 7x57 in a 6.5x57 it probably wouldn’t be chatastrophic on first shot, but repeated use would be another matter.

And of course in real life a 7x57 shooting a 140 or 156gn bullet will be pretty much indistinguishable from 6.5x55 or 57 or CM shooting the same weight and style of bullet, or certainly as far as Deer is concerned.
 

Doric

Well-Known Member
Can anyone explain to me why I am shooting 7mm Mauser factory loads out of my 6.5x55. Are they virtually the same thing. And when I get to reloading the 7mm brass what dies do I use, 7mm or 6.5. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You are NOT shooting 7mm x 57 out of your 6.5. If the head stamp reads 7x57 the brass has been reformed for the swede.
 

LeftHandGuy

Well-Known Member
You are NOT shooting 7mm x 57 out of your 6.5. If the head stamp reads 7x57 the brass has been reformed for the swede.

Nope. Read the whole thread and you will see that he is shooting 7x57. Appears the rifle got re-barreled at some point.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Is this actually possible?
Well the shoulder of the 7x57 is a touch shorter than that of a 6.5x57, but of course bullet diameter is a touch bigger. Probably not possible in normal slow bolt loading - it would feel pretty tight.

But mix up the ammo, load a 7x57 into mag of a 6.5x57 and do a quick reload when you have shot a stag and its making for deepest darkest wood and you want a follow up shot. You are working that bolt hard and fast, with a bit of adrenalin and focus on the animal, anything can happen.
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
Well the shoulder of the 7x57 is a touch shorter than that of a 6.5x57, but of course bullet diameter is a touch bigger. Probably not possible in normal slow bolt loading - it would feel pretty tight.

But mix up the ammo, load a 7x57 into mag of a 6.5x57 and do a quick reload when you have shot a stag and its making for deepest darkest wood and you want a follow up shot. You are working that bolt hard and fast, with a bit of adrenalin and focus on the animal, anything can happen.
So you've tried, and it is actually possible?
I would have imagined that getting bullet and neck of of the 7mm into the 6.5mm would take more effort than one could normally bring to bear by simply pushing a bolt forward.
 

Laurie

Well-Known Member
The late Frank de Haas recounted in his original 1st edition gunsmithing book on rifle actions the tale of the American who bought a surplus Type 38 Arisaka rifle (6.5X50mm cal) and as he couldn't get any ammo bought a 30-06 chamber reamer and ground the pilot down so it would fit the 6.5mm bore and rechambered the rifle to 30-06. He proceeded to fire 30-06 ammo down it and killed a deer or two, even.

As it kicked 'real hard', he took it to a local gunsmith to have it checked over. The gunsmith couldn't believe the rifle had remained intact and sent it and the fired brass to the US NRA technical department who confirmed it was a 30-06 behind a 6.5mm bore and had apparently been fired using 30 cal ammo and put it into their exhibit of horrors. De Haas uses it to illustrate how strong the Arisaka actions were before describing a torture test he and a friend carried out on a 7.7mm Type 77 Arisaka (0.303/0.311 bore / groove diameters) which they rechambered to 30-06 and tried to blow up with increasingly heavy loads such as a case-full of Hercules 2400 behind a 180gn bullet, but failed. (They managed to bulge the barrel and make it jump a tenon thread and comprehensively demolished the case, but the only damage to the action itself was the extractor blown off, He says the action was rebuilt and later incorporated into a hunting rifle.)

More recently, there was a pic around of a 300 AAC Blackout bullet fired in a 223 Rem and the rather (!!) swaged down and lengthened bullet recovered from the front two inches of the barrel where it had finally stopped.

300 aac fired in 223 « Search Results « Daily Bulletin

Unlike the 30-06/6.5mm and similar that require monumental ignorance and stupidity, it's all too easy to load and fire 300 Blackout in 223 it seems.
 

Dalua

Well-Known Member
Interesting stuff, Laurie - but none of those examples involved anything like chambering a 6.5x57 in a 7x57 rifle.

I wonder whether the Arisaka 7.7 was destruction-tested with .308 bullets (to match the .30-06 rechambering), rather than .311-.312?
 

Daddy The Skunk

Well-Known Member
Can anyone explain to me why I am shooting 7mm Mauser factory loads out of my 6.5x55. Are they virtually the same thing. And when I get to reloading the 7mm brass what dies do I use, 7mm or 6.5. Any help would be greatly appreciated.2 does t I assume you can in fact read and understand they are not the same cartridge so why did you do this? I shall now await my upcoming ban from this site.
Only after reading the entire thread do I understand what took place, the mentioned barrel marks in 7x57. Otherwise things may have gotten out of hand on firing. My apologies to The dead moose.
 
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Daddy The Skunk

Well-Known Member
The late Frank de Haas recounted in his original 1st edition gunsmithing book on rifle actions the tale of the American who bought a surplus Type 38 Arisaka rifle (6.5X50mm cal) and as he couldn't get any ammo bought a 30-06 chamber reamer and ground the pilot down so it would fit the 6.5mm bore and rechambered the rifle to 30-06. He proceeded to fire 30-06 ammo down it and killed a deer or two, even.

As it kicked 'real hard', he took it to a local gunsmith to have it checked over. The gunsmith couldn't believe the rifle had remained intact and sent it and the fired brass to the US NRA technical department who confirmed it was a 30-06 behind a 6.5mm bore and had apparently been fired using 30 cal ammo and put it into their exhibit of horrors. De Haas uses it to illustrate how strong the Arisaka actions were before describing a torture test he and a friend carried out on a 7.7mm Type 77 Arisaka (0.303/0.311 bore / groove diameters) which they rechambered to 30-06 and tried to blow up with increasingly heavy loads such as a case-full of Hercules 2400 behind a 180gn bullet, but failed. (They managed to bulge the barrel and make it jump a tenon thread and comprehensively demolished the case, but the only damage to the action itself was the extractor blown off, He says the action was rebuilt and later incorporated into a hunting rifle.)

More recently, there was a pic around of a 300 AAC Blackout bullet fired in a 223 Rem and the rather (!!) swaged down and lengthened bullet recovered from the front two inches of the barrel where it had finally stopped.

300 aac fired in 223 « Search Results « Daily Bulletin

Unlike the 30-06/6.5mm and similar that require monumental ignorance and stupidity, it's all too easy to load and fire 300 Blackout in 223 it seems.
Thank you sir I had forgotten this article it speaks volumes.
 

alberta boy

Well-Known Member
The late Frank de Haas recounted in his original 1st edition gunsmithing book on rifle actions the tale of the American who bought a surplus Type 38 Arisaka rifle (6.5X50mm cal) and as he couldn't get any ammo bought a 30-06 chamber reamer and ground the pilot down so it would fit the 6.5mm bore and rechambered the rifle to 30-06. He proceeded to fire 30-06 ammo down it and killed a deer or two, even.

As it kicked 'real hard', he took it to a local gunsmith to have it checked over. The gunsmith couldn't believe the rifle had remained intact and sent it and the fired brass to the US NRA technical department who confirmed it was a 30-06 behind a 6.5mm bore and had apparently been fired using 30 cal ammo and put it into their exhibit of horrors. De Haas uses it to illustrate how strong the Arisaka actions were before describing a torture test he and a friend carried out on a 7.7mm Type 77 Arisaka (0.303/0.311 bore / groove diameters) which they rechambered to 30-06 and tried to blow up with increasingly heavy loads such as a case-full of Hercules 2400 behind a 180gn bullet, but failed. (They managed to bulge the barrel and make it jump a tenon thread and comprehensively demolished the case, but the only damage to the action itself was the extractor blown off, He says the action was rebuilt and later incorporated into a hunting rifle.)

More recently, there was a pic around of a 300 AAC Blackout bullet fired in a 223 Rem and the rather (!!) swaged down and lengthened bullet recovered from the front two inches of the barrel where it had finally stopped.

300 aac fired in 223 « Search Results « Daily Bulletin

Unlike the 30-06/6.5mm and similar that require monumental ignorance and stupidity, it's all too easy to load and fire 300 Blackout in 223 it seems.

Crazy !........... but think what the ballistic coefficient of that bullet would be lol .
 

Laurie

Well-Known Member
I wonder whether the Arisaka 7.7 was destruction-tested with .308 bullets (to match the .30-06 rechambering), rather than .311-.312?

IIRC with a 180gn 308. Although 3 thou' undersize, it'd still be a good enough fit to generate serious over-pressures with 50 odd grains 2400 behind it. (QuickLOAD says you can get 55gn 2400 in and calculates 189,000 psi. So even if the slightly smaller bullet knocked 10 or even 20,000 psi off, it's still what would be regarded as a gun-breaking load.) He doesn't say if he set the barrel back before chambering either. Lots of souvenir 7.7 Arisakas were rechambered to 30-06 after WW2, but Ackley and others warned that just unscrewing the barrel and rechambering it was very unwise as the 7.7 Jap has a slightly larger diameter web than 30-06 so the base of the case body above the groove is left partially unsupported.

The point I was trying to make is that if it is at all possible to force a cartridge into somewhere it shouldn't be - no matter how unlikely it seems, or physically hard - some bozo will sooner or later manage it and risk coming to grief. In an earlier generation American 'doughboys' managed to destroy a fair few '03 Springfields seeing if recovered German 7.92X57 iS rounds would fire in a 30-06 chamber.

However, assuming the original post wasn't a wind-up, it always looked more likely it would turn out to be a rebarrel job on a one-time 6.5X55 rifle or other form of mistaken identity.

If the OP had fired 6.5X55 ammo in it, he'd have 1) missed the deer or target and 2) have extracted either a fireformed 7X57 case, or more likely a now 7X57 case with a neck and shoulder split. I was alongside a shooter some years ago in a match who had a complete case separation in a 6.5-284 rifle leaving the front section stuck in the chamber. There was no drama apart from a wild shot and the partially blocked chamber. This was a bit puzzling until it was noticed it wasn't a 6.5-284 case, rather a 6.5X55 - a great deal more excess headspace than 6.5X55 in 7X57. If you did manage to hammer a round in the other way round though I wouldn't want to be behind the butt when it was fired. Even so, I suspect if one of many relatively low pressure 7X57 loadings around, the action would probably stay in one piece.
 

Muir

Well-Known Member
An alternative, voiced without reading all the posts, Husqvarna made many sported in the late 40's based on the 96 swede. Maybe they did one in 7x57? I have a Model 648 which is a 96 Swede in 8x57.~Muir
 

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