8 months isn't long enough

OMG!
I just realised that some of my friends are involved in this sort of thing.
Arranging dogs to fight ducks and pheasants. These sickos actually shoot at the pheasants to injure them first and then set their spaniels out after them to fight the pheasants and pick them up and bring them back for them to eventually be killed by the gunman.
Some of the spaniels get injured going through fences and things, during these pheasant fights and the injuries are sometimes treated by the gunmen instead of a vet!
The even send photos of the dead pheasants to me sometimes. Ha. Evidence for the police.
 
Cheers for that. I have reread the original post he made umpteen times trying to work out what I didn’t understand.
Just ignore the idiot. He delights in dissemination, distraction, and pointless arguments to derail threads. He'd be absolutely no loss to the forum. I'm very surprised he's still here, to be honest. Best bet is not to react. Don't feed the troll, and all that.
 
Anyone with a vague understanding of hunting with dogs will know that a hunting dog is bred for purpose, you can't instill a drive to hunt into a dog, it's either in the dogs DNA or it isn't. You can't force a terrier to enter an earth and seek out quarry no matter how skilled, experienced or educated you are. It's either in the dog or it's not, sure enough some well bred dogs can be slow learners and need encouragement but no dog trainer is going to convince one that wasn't bred for purpose to do it and even if they could that dog would be out of that earth like a scalded cat at the first sign of aggro.

There was a guy on here not too long ago that paid £50 for a failed rabbit hunting yoke that was a bag of nerves, he bought it from a rescue kennel and he wanted to train to be a deer tracking dog because he was too mean to pay for a properly bred dog fit for purpose and too ignorant to know he was wasting his and the dogs time. It's plebs like him that give hunting a bad name.
 
Condem all you want, he wasn't charged with harming badgers, no evidence was presented that he caused harm to badgers and he didn't plead guilty to harming badgers.

Some people that have posted in this thread have done more harm to the hunting fraternity than that unfortunate chap.

The anti's don't need ye to spread false accusations, they are quite capable of doing that themselves, but carry on there if it makes ye feel ye somehow have a moral highground.

Tally ho chaps.
I would hardly describe him as unfortunate. What people need to understand is that despite what some in the shooting community may think, the killing of a Fox in such a manner, is cruel and does not reflect well on the rest of us.
Now I have killed enough Foxes in my time, but no matter what, one always needs to ensure that any such action is clean and humane. In this case it was clear to the powers that be, that this particular person took pleasure in more or less torturing the animal.

The simple fact is that he was caught red handed, and I believe on some one else's ground, where he did not have permission to be.

He deserves his punishment, and possibly more. I have a feeling he is lucky to get off so lightly. He may not have been charged with harming Badgers in this instance. But i would not be surprised if he was into this side of things as well.
 
I would hardly describe him as unfortunate. What people need to understand is that despite what some in the shooting community may think, the killing of a Fox in such a manner, is cruel and does not reflect well on the rest of us.
Now I have killed enough Foxes in my time, but no matter what, one always needs to ensure that any such action is clean and humane. In this case it was clear to the powers that be, that this particular person took pleasure in more or less torturing the animal.

The simple fact is that he was caught red handed, and I believe on some one else's ground, where he did not have permission to be.

He deserves his punishment, and possibly more. I have a feeling he is lucky to get off so lightly. He may not have been charged with harming Badgers in this instance. But i would not be surprised if he was into this side of things as well.
He either was charged or he wasn't, why do you as the owner of a hunting forum feel the need to speculate?
 
He either was charged or he wasn't, why do you as the owner of a hunting forum feel the need to speculate?
Because I own the site :) as you so rightly pointed out.
He was caught in the act of breaking the law. That's it end off. There is no doubt in my mind that this is not the first time he has committed such an act.

And we would appreciate less confrontational responses all round on here.
Thank you.
 
Because I own the site :) as you so rightly pointed out.
He was caught in the act of breaking the law. That's it end off. There is no doubt in my mind that this is not the first time he has committed such an act.

And we would appreciate less confrontational responses all round on here.
Thank you.
None of my responses were confrontational, just because they don't agree with speculative conjecture does not make them confrontational.

You're welcome.
 
I may be a bit thick, but what is the point of putting a dog down a set or earth, so that the ensuing scrap & pinning of animal causing wounding to both animals, & then the laborious digging out of said animals, involving removal of rocks & tree roots & tonnage of soil, & the precarious dispatch of an animal that is fighting for its life, when you can just wait till it comes out of the hole & shoot it. It does seem a bit unnecessary.
 
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I may be a bit thick, but what is the point of putting a dog down a set or earth, so that the ensuing scrap & pinning of animal causing wounding to both animals, & then the laborious digging out of said animals, involving removal of rocks & tree roots & tonnage of soil, & the precarious dispatch of an animal that is fighting for its life, when you can just wait till it comes out of the hole & shoot it. It does seem a bit unnecessary.

Terrier work is an essential tool in fox control, now i'm not saying wot the lad has done is legitimate fox control.

its the same with hunting, most folk consider ur red coats galloping round flat fields sipping from hip flasks. Tally ho old chum type thing

In certain areas of scotland gun packs are probably the best tool for keeping fox numbers down, ( esp so in many areas with rising badger numbers so legal snareing becomes more difficult) The same would be true in parts of wales/cumbria before the ban in englandshire
I know of some that go out with scramblers and esp around lambing time, just 1 or 2 folk on scramblers and 2-3 pair of hounds just going out almost on call if a farmer losing stock, not much else would do the job they're doing

And terrier work in the spring/cubbing time is probably the most effiecient of them all, if u know where the dens are.
Plus the ideal time in upland areas as just about/before lambing time.

Must admit personally never been in to terriers my self for all the above reasons ( to much bloody hard work) but have been around plenty that are /were big time.
Nowadays u can't really get away with ur real strong game 'hard' terriers that get splattered.
I mind once out with a gun pack on my ground fox went to earth below a big beech tree, put this cracking wee border terrier in ( if u seen it in the street u'd think it was a hand bag dog ) bayed it up not far from hole entrance but big roots in the way, the dog was so calm u could call it back, cut roots with chainsaw, back in call back again. Just does enough to hold the fox until shot not a mark on it.
Thats the type of earth dog u need nowadays or else ur going to fal foul to animal cruelty laws

I can also mind as a boy beating 1 of the old timers from cumbria used to dig badger legally, they would hitch to the lorry cafes on the M6 ( or wot ever it was back then) get a lift down to chesire type area dig the badgers and actually catch them and bring them up to cumbria ( old schjool ifor wiliams style)
He reckoned quite a large % of badger in cumbria had been reintroduced for digging.
When they dug them they would just release them again relatively un harmed ( baiting is a very different thing altogether)


As for the boy getting sent to jail. I don't know enough FACTS about it to say much, the paper reports paint a pretty dim view but a lot of the charges when u read them are not

To be honest i'm not entirely sure exactly how much evidence they really had he's not from wot i can understand been charged with any badger related offences.
At 1 point it states he 'sent 50 photos' of injured dogs and people standing over dead animals. He's obivously not the sharpest knife in the drawer, sending photos away to be devolped. He even does that now?? Must admit surprised it wasn't on his mobile esp at his age.
It really all depends on wot species the dead animals are? If they're only foxes it may be a bit harsh
I'm guessing thats where the inciting dogs to fight charge comes in ( althou guessing wild animals rather than other dogs) a lot might depend on the photos
But if having photo standing beside a dead animal is enough to get ur door kicked in we all could be in trouble in the future

More evidence was badger DNA on a collar, i'm guesing the bleeper collar but even that could be circumstancial, badgrs and foxes can share the same hole or rubbed up against some badger hair somewhere? I don't know.

To be fair 1 look at the dogs would tell u pretty clear wot hes ben up to, no disguising that. Foxes and badgers tend to bite in different ways so where the scar tissue is tells its own story.
To me the photos do look like they have seen a billy but mibbe just the way dogs are 'smiling' in the photo


He was charged with firearms offences, but basically just some lose ammo, 2 lose 22lr rounds down the side of ur drivers seat could see u guilty of that.
Same with the off prescription medicines, in the past all terrier men and keepers would do that and i bet many farmers too


I think the law on terrier work has a lot of grey area's now and best practice ecourages the use of 'softer' terriers instead of the old hard patterdale types.
But how u define a soft and hard terrier by law? And even the soft 1's will get injured from time to time.

For me it all depend wot was in the photos,
How badly are dogs hurt?
And wot animals are lying dead?

I try not to make a judgement on it as its something that doesn't interest me at all, but remember most of us will be doing field sports that appall a lot of the general public.
Althou 1 look at the dogs and i think i would make a judgement 1 way or other.
 
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