A 243 with 1:9 twist and 21" barrel

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
I'm looking at a 243 rifle with with a 1:9 twist and 21" barrel. It's the standard 'light' barrel.

My limited (!) understanding of the various compromises involved in choosing a rifle suggest this might be on the short side?

It will be used mostly for Roe, but there will be some early range work to get the loads right.

Given the intended use (Roe) and the twist rate, what are the upper and lower bullet weights/lengths I might be restricted to?

I have read a lot of the excellent info on the forum about ballistics, and played with the spreadsheet but I am hampered my lack of technical knowledge a familiarity with velocities etc for factory ammunition. Some of it I understand and some of it I don't.

Thanks.
 

swampy

Account Suspended
rifle

Hi snowstorm,
Have you already committed to buying the .243 win?

maybe if not it might be worth looking at a 6.5 to .30 cal rifle. this will give you more flexibility later if you want to shoot boar or other deer species. with the relaxation of the species specific calibres by the home office a bigger calibre might be a good call. a fox is just as dead if you hit it with 130 gr of 7mm bullet as it is with 58 gr of 6mm bullet from your .243. a boar will be significantly deader if you hit it with 160 gr of 7mm bullet than with 100gr of 6mm bullet. and some .243s struggle with 100 gr bullets.

Steve
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
Thanks both. At the moment its due to land clearance, I had asked for a 308 but was kept to a 243. But for now I'm stuck with it.

I did see the twist info post, but 1:9 wasnt there for the 243, does this mean :

6mm/.243
- 8" Special for VLD bullets over 100 gr.
- 8"* Ratchet rifled 4 groove
- 10" For bullets up to 120 gr. and VLD under 100 gr.

that 110g would be the maximum I could realistically use? I'm not sure what VLD means!

Basically, with a 1:9 twist and 21 inch barrel will be able to use a heavy enough bullet for Roe? It's probably the barrel length issue that has me most worried - I can't recall where, but recently I'm sure I read in a magazine don't go less than 22" for 243. Does 21 inches mean I'm committed to using lighter rounds?

See I'm stabbing in the dark here, not an advisable thing to do !

Cheers.
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
There is evidence that as barrels get shorter then muzzle velocity decreases, but in reality it would not decrease significantly enough to affect it for what you want. Somewhere in the region of 100 fps / inch reduction was the suggestion, so if you start off with a 24" inch barrel you may, and I emphasize may, lose 300 fps off your muzzle velocity. If I were in your shoes would not get too excited about the barrel length.

John
 

Offroad Gary

Account Suspended
my .243 prohunter mountain had 20" barrel and that done the trick. blaser offer all calibres with 20"/500mm barrel as a standard option.
 

swampy

Account Suspended
how come

How come you got told you couldn't have the .308. it is a very well accepted deer cartridge?

!00gr is not too light for roe. but in my opinion it is not the best tool for the job. there are lots of guys here that use them with great success. I have used one in the past but i have gone to 7mm08 now.

I THINK that VLD means very low drag. if i am right the are very long bullets, not normally used in stalking.

realistically there is a good range of 100 gr bullets you will probably be fine with. If you reload you get an even better choice. i have used 80, 87, 100 and 105 gr bullets on deer with my .243. the two lighter ones were very damaging and not very efficient and dropping the deer.105s were not accurate enough for me. I use hornady 100gr interlock (catalogue number 2450).

as jayb said, don't worry about slightly shorter barrels, i think sometimes 3000fps .243 bullets might be going a bit quick. (sayng this 300wsms rifles are 3400 fps rifles and he shoots loads of deer) my 7mm08 has an 18.5 barrel so it maybe doing only about 2500-2600 fps with 145 gr bullets but it is a death ray. all of my shooting is under 200 yards so thats ok.

If you have already got your ticket then so be it. if it is still away then maybe you could give them a call and say you think a .308 might be better for your needs.

Where are you in the country?

swampy
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
Thanks chaps,

I did argue the case for 308, but its my land, just over the border in Scotland, and I had no invitations anywhere else - so couldn't show the need for anyhting bigger than what the land was cleared for. I also think the decision was influenced as much by the fact that I'm not an experienced stalker than anything else.

The land clearnce influenced the FAC conditions and vice versa - who knows what goes on behind closed doors ?

The inital clearance was for 223, and after some argument on my part they increased it to 243 - the argument was won by my point that I'd need to buy more rifles than I needed if I wanted to shoot in England as well - the topography of the land seemed not to be relevant at that point.

Actually I'm quite happy with the 243, I just want to make sure I get the right rifle.

They could have put named land and a mentor condition on my ticket, which they didnt, and I can go anywhere as long as I have permission and the land has been cleared for the calibre, and that in itself isnt a bad result for a first time application.

Ultimately I imagine they will open my ticket which will resolve the 308 issue.

The wild boar haven't made it there yet! but the fallow are just to the west. Soon as I spot either I'll ask again for the 308!

I really appreciate the advice though, thanks everyone.
 

griffshrek

Well-Known Member
snowstorm

there are better calibers than the fantastic .243 .

i got one as when i stepped into the centerfire world i needed a rifle to do fox and deer i could not afford two rifles optics and mods at that time.i had permission to shot over several thousands of acres of land all assessed for max 243(no deer on this land) as i do a lot of foxing(no open fac)

i did a lot of research and found the 243 would fill my needs . i am a firm believer in using one rifle to do a job if you can, as you get too understand the rifle far better and what it can do.

i also try to use bullet weights that are reasonable close together ie my fox bullet is a 75gr and my deer is 90gr bonded bullet with a few reloading "tweeks" both bullets have the same point of impact .

my 243 has served me well i mostly shoot fallow deer some up to 200lbs most drop either to the shot or take a couple of steps and go over. i have had deer run but they dont go far before stopping. what i am carfull of is my shot placment at rasonable ranges.

to finish off a 25-06,6.5x55,270,308,338 and 375 will all kill deer better than the 243 but dead is dead i have had no issues with mine stopping what ive shot at ...........neil :lol:
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Agreed 243 win may not be the perfect deer calibre and that bigger calibres knock them over a bit quicker, but it is a very effective calibre that is used world wide to shoot things much bigger than Roe Deer. Shot placement is everything and frankly if you have a bullet that penetrates to the vitals and causes massive internal bleeding of the heart / lungs and major arteries the animal is dead.

I have a 243, would like something a bit bigger possibly, but I shoot left handed, and good left handed rifles are a bit like rocking horse poo.

One day I will get something bigger - 30 cal of some sort probably, but it won't replace the .243.

243 is also pretty quiet without a moderator.

Muzzle length - don't worry about.

243 win is designed to shoot 100 gn bullets, but with any rifle you may need to try a few different brands before coming up with one your rifle likes.

Also don't get too hung up on accuracy - there is benchrest accurcy and hunting accuracy - provided your rifle shoots 1 inch to 1.5 inch group at 100 yds you will put venison on the table.
 

tartinjock

Distinguished Member
If I was to keep one of my rifles only it would be the .243, I would get rid of the .308

I think in the right hands it is such a versitile rifle with a wide range of quarrie to shoot within it's capabilities and that of the person pulling the trigger.

I am limited on other similar size rifles though, would like to try 30-06, 25-06, 6.5x55 the list could go on....Just to compaire.

If at the end of the day, it feels right, Sorted.

TJ
 

Chops

Well-Known Member
Snowstorm -

I came across this on the NFA website:

http://www.nfa.ca/content/view/129/197/

However my Sako 75 is a 1:10" twist and will not group with bullets over 90g. If you are looking to shooting 100g bullets 1:9 should be good.

I am looking to get a new barrel on my Sako, in 6mm, but will be getting a 1:8 twist so I can shoot over 105g bullets. Generally the faster the twist the heavy the bullet it will stabilise.

Chops
 

stag1933

Well-Known Member
Years ago I came across something called a `modified Greenhills formula`, which roughly shows the optimum max. weight in relation to twist rate .
1 in 10 = 85gr.
1 in 9 = 95gr.
1 in 8 = 107gr.
Lighter bullets are not affected .

HWH .
 

ecoman

Well-Known Member

Question.
How did the barrel get to be 21" ? Is that the way it came off the shelf - NEW ?

If so, then it was crowned and proofed ready for sale and not tinkered-with.

The 1 in 9" twist is designed to stabilise bullets at least from 90 to 105 grains.

It's the 1 in 12" which is designed for the lighter stuff.

For instance, most 6.5mm barrels have a 1 in 9" twist and they stabilise anything from 87 grains up to 165.

The danger is - to my mind - is your rifle second hand and has it been altered causing problems.

I agree that heading towards a bigger medium calibre with the future in mind could be sensible, but if that happens best to examine the rifle shape first and ensure that it does NOT have the classic drop-at-heel which is esigned for open sight usage and which creates the upwards whip in recoil.
If you are starting, there's no shame in using a lighter legal calibre until you get used to the game. Just guard against bullet deflection or blow-up. A very small twig between you and the point of aim - - - - . I've done it as I'm sure plenty of others have.

Like others here - I'm puzzled that there could be a restriction placed on calibre. It's not as though you were crossing the border in the emerald isle where military-calibre rounds were prohibited and you could only use .22 centrefire at one time.
It made me smile that I could wing my way into Dublin airport with a 6.5 X 57mm, but not with a .308, and when I landed - the rifle was not with customs, but to my horror, offering itself to anyone who cared to lift it off the circulating rondavel with the other baggage.
 

75

Well-Known Member
stag1933 said:
Years ago I came across something called a `modified Greenhills formula`, which roughly shows the optimum max. weight in relation to twist rate .
1 in 10 = 85gr.
1 in 9 = 95gr.
1 in 8 = 107gr.
Lighter bullets are not affected .

HWH .
That's interesting - I've been shooting 100gr through my Sako 75 (with a 1 in 10 twist) and can get some fairly good groups out of it sometimes, but I'm always left with the feeling it could do better!

chops said:
However my Sako 75 is a 1:10" twist and will not group with bullets over 90g. If you are looking to shooting 100g bullets 1:9 should be good.
Chops - what brand/bullet did you settle on for your 75 or do you reload?
 

Chops

Well-Known Member
75,

I ended up using 87g harnady HPBT with varget. Nosler 80gr BT's worked well too.

I have now rebarrelled to 6x47 lapua but if you wnat the 243 reloading data I collated I will happily publish.

Cheers

Chops
 

75

Well-Known Member
Chops said:
75,

I ended up using 87g harnady HPBT with varget. Nosler 80gr BT's worked well too.

I have now rebarrelled to 6x47 lapua but if you wnat the 243 reloading data I collated I will happily publish.

Cheers

Chops
Chops - PM sent - thanks for the kind offer!
 

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