A message to BASC...

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long_range_rob

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A group who claim to be all about environmentalism but still send a magazine (admittedly now in a paper envelope) via postman pats little red diesel van (plus lots of big red hgv’s) to peoples doorsteps. What is the carbon cost of that? After 30+ years of membership I’m starting to look elsewhere. Perhaps a rebrand to the British Association for Driven Game Shooting would be a better handle
 

Basil H

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I would guess that the magazine pretty much pays for itself through advertising. You don't have to read it !
Arguing about the magazine obscures the basic point here that we are looking for more "front-foot" defence of what we do.
 

The deer man

Well-Known Member
Quick questions and my views.

Are those affected by the police actions members of BASC? If they are, is there evidence that suggests they are not being supported?

If insurance is so cheap, can we not buy the legal cover directly ourselves? I do agree that BASC could offer this as an option [as could the other groups].

Is the magazine necessary? not really and could be done electronically.

However, I can talk from my experience and they have been supporting in my queries with the law and it's interpretation. I can also say that they have been very busy with other issues [of which I do not know the details].
I believe three of four were members but whether they still are I don't know but I will find out.

BASC used to include legal cover but withdrew it, I presume as a cost saving exercise but they could still offer it as an additional premium as Gunplan offers. The CPSA include it as standard. That said I'd be happy to pay an extra £7 premium on my membership fee to include legal protection.

Certainly the magazine could be done electronically. As pointed out the advertising probably pays for it but it is geared to the monied shooter.

I have always had a good experience with BASC and found them helpful but unless we are able to point out areas of improvement or what we desire how are they to improve?
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
The issue of police forces now taking what appears to be an overly robust stance to firearms/shotgun cert holders is an issue that should be at least looked at by BASC. I don't necessarily mean enquiring into every case, but enquiring into the issues that are raised. I can understand the police tightening things up, certainly that feller should have been nowhere near getting a certificate back. But to tighten things to such a degree as they seem to be doing now? Don't know about that. But it's hard to judge, only ever hearing one side to a story.

But the real undemocratic issue is that if you have your guns and certificates taken, there is no real way to have that independently reviewed without incurring big solicitors' fees, leaving the poor subject no way to challenge anything. That just isn't natural justice. It's a poor do when the only thing you can do is a video with the Fieldsports Channel.
 

The deer man

Well-Known Member
...But the real undemocratic issue is that if you have your guns and certificates taken, there is no real way to have that independently reviewed without incurring big solicitors' fees, leaving the poor subject no way to challenge anything. That just isn't natural justice. It's a poor do when the only thing you can do is a video with the Fieldsports Channel.
Hence a good argument to bring back appropriate insurance cover but also how to react to Police.

As I understand if a licence is revoked you have a right to appeal via the courts hence the need for appropriate legal cover. But, if you are asked to voluntary surrender your guns there is no easy mechanism to get them back, it's almost like accepting a 'Police caution' you are accepting guilt.
 
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The deer man

Well-Known Member
Which out of all the organisations give this kind of insurance FOC please ?
Cheers Jimmy
The CPSA give legal cover but only for shotgun shooting / shotgun related scenarios.

Gunplan are an insurance company and can supply comprehensive insurance package to the shooter of all disciplines, but do nothing for shooting as a sport.

The NGO and the BDS do not appear to offer legal cover with their membership fee.
 

jimmy milnes

Well-Known Member
The CPSA give legal cover but only for shotgun shooting / shotgun related scenarios.

Gunplan are an insurance company and can supply comprehensive insurance package to the shooter of all disciplines, but do nothing for shooting as a sport.

The NGO and the BDS do not appear to offer legal cover with their membership fee.
Hi, thanks for the reply, thats interesting then as surely someone is missing a trick.
Cheers Jimmy
 

kes

Well-Known Member
You should contact either the CEO by letter or talk to a member of Council and make your concerns known if you are a member and note it.
If, as suggested this is happening elsewhere and without good reason then its undoubtedly actionable at law and it only takes one valid case.
I have no love for BASC and would doubt they will accept this as a valid concern of members or take it seriously.
I would and do, research the law. They have to give a reason to enter your premises or provide a search warrant. They (recently) have also had the excuse of 'intelligence' which gives them scope they should not have.
If I remember correctly BASC have always said that legal shooters should never need to deny the police access to your home when requested. Perhaps they need an advice note in the event that police turn up with no warrant and no reasonable intelligence excuse for members only of course ?
The key here is the police should not enter your house as mentioned and you should have a right to question the intelligence and its source BEFORE they take any guns or even enter, this seems reasonable and the law is based upon reasonableness.
This is simply justified abuse of process and power and many of us saw it coming when BASC issued the advice of letting the police in - remember the guy who showed them how to reload whilst in his pyjamas and his concern not to offend - I wonder how they convince people to allow them access and this is one more bizarre example. Maybe this isnt the best example but if you listen to Charlies piece the POLICEMAN explains that they are doing this throughout their area if in doubt - confiscate cannot be a justified approach.
Perhaps it doesn't happen in the game shooting community - chocolate teapot comes to mind.
BASC has never been good at anticipation and obviously does not like horses to be in confined spaces but closes the stable door.....................
 

Basil H

Well-Known Member
See my post 24. I don't think this is a binary choice if the magazine is a source of income !
Further insurance cover would inevitably cost - and many members would I believe pay for it. I would,
BDS offer normal 3rd party cover as an option. I wonder what the uptake is.
 

bottletopbill

Well-Known Member
Basc as lent money to various groups to buy land why cant they buy land for members to use for shooting instead. In different areas for all member's to use on a booking to give every one equal access.
 

Basil H

Well-Known Member
Bill, you are in a new and different area here ! Historically WAGBI/BASC had a policy against land purchase because they had little money and later on the problems of administration were high and disproportionate. The organisation was pushed by a couple of Essex wildfowlers into creating the Wildlife Habitat Trust in the mid-80s. It raises money by sale of "duck stamps" and other means. There is a website. Essentially (from memory) there are two branches, WHT and WHCT, one of which loans money for land purchase by clubs etc. and the other gives grants for projects at home and abroad. These are (broadly) mostly areas which support migratory waterfowl. You can look it up for yourself. Obviously some but not all of these areas are shot over. It's pretty small scale but some land has been preserved for wild sport. These are as I said mostly small areas but of course membership of the clubs involved is open to all. You can see some of it in that glossy magazine from time to time.
I reckon I have like many others put a four figure sum into this over the years with no personal benefit other than knowing I did my bit for future shooters.
 

reiver

Well-Known Member
Of course the point you make is valid however I am in possession of three incidents of people I personally know where the Police have acted beyond reason using intimidation and threats. The outcome of two of them was that their licences and guns have been returned because there was no case to answer, the third (a son of one of them) is having his licence returned. The father and son incident originated from an anti and her mother which triggered the overreaction of the Police. Of course there is more but please don't expect me to supply names and addresses!

A fourth case very local to me was the arrest and confiscation of a persons guns due to the friend of the daughter reporting him as threatening his wife. I know the wife well and the husband and although they are now divorced the incident never happened and the girl who reported it admitted she may have overreacted, of course she never got into trouble did she.

All we need is robust advise on how to deal with a situation when Police arrive on your doorstep and a membership insurance cover available to take on the legal burden.
were the people involved BASC members or members of any other organization ? and if so did they ask for any help in getting there guns back and what help was offered .
 
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