Am i likely to get a variation if .....

Evillemon

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon Gents,

I just wanted to run this by some of you more experienced shooters. I am currently considering putting in a variation for a .243, i have have my first centrefire ( a .223 ) for a year now and since the time of my original application (when my main quarry was foxes) i have become interested in deer stalking as my primary quarry.

I have two large (300+acre) permissions which are already legally cleared to .243 however they do not have deer larger than Muntjac on them, i got my .223 for these permissions for fox control but my license has been updated to allow me to use it for Muntjac and CWD as needed.

However this year ive done a 6 paid stalks with a couple of reputable stalkers just for Muntjac deer and have been building up my stalking experience a bit more. I have recently booked to do my DSC1 course and have booked two weekends of stalking for next spring for larger deer Roe / Fallow and i plan to book at least several more to build a portfolio of stalking experience.

I would like to apply for my own .243, i have a space for it in my cabinet. I would have to put down on my variation that it would be for use on paid stalking days, not necessarily for use on my permission as i cannot justify needing it there due to no large deer and already catered for with the .223 for foxes. Although if i had one i would likely zero it at my permission as the land is cleared to .243 and possibly sometimes on foxes if that was allowed.

Additionally my new shooting friend and his dad have an 8000acre permission over in the south of England (with Fallow, Roe and Reds) which they have said i can come and shoot with them when i like, although i dont have a "permission letter" per se for that land owner, can i also give this as another reason for my application ?

My question then is do the police grant variations based on someone who can show evidence of regularly attending paid stalking weekends / has evidence of upcoming weekend booked and paid for ??

Thank you all very much for any input, I greatly appreciate the advice of my more experienced colleagues.
atvb

Tim
 
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Cyres

Well-Known Member
From what you have written then you have every reason to apply for a .243, are you sure you have no roe, bit suprising in that now they have appeared to colonised virtually all of the UK. More to the point how do the police not know you have roe in your stalking locality.

I A@S they now insist you haev a DSC L1 to apply for a deer calibre C/F so if you pass then I would have thought you have a cast iron case.

However i expect the more learned members of the forum will give first hand experience.

D
 

Naseby

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon Gents,

I just wanted to run this by some of you more experienced shooters. I am currently considering putting in a variation for a .243, i have have my first centrefire ( a .223 ) for a year now and since the time of my original application (when my main quarry was foxes) i have become interested in deer stalking as my primary quarry.

I have two large (300+acre) permissions which are already legally cleared to .243 however they do not have deer larger than Muntjac on them, i got my .223 for these permissions for fox control but my license has been updated to allow me to use it for Muntjac and CWD as needed.

However this year ive done a 6 paid stalks with a couple of reputable stalkers just for Muntjac deer and have been building up my stalking experience a bit more. I have recently booked to do my DSC1 course and have booked two weekends of stalking for next spring for larger deer Roe / Fallow and i plan to book at least several more to build a portfolio of stalking experience.

I would like to apply for my own .243, i have a space for it in my cabinet. I would have to put down on my variation that it would be for use on paid stalking days, not necessarily for use on my permission as i cannot justify needing it there due to no large deer and already catered for with the .223 for foxes. Although if i had one i would likely zero it at my permission as the land is cleared to .243 and possibly sometimes on foxes if that was allowed.

My question then is do the police grant variations based on someone who can show evidence of regularly attending paid stalking weekends / has evidence of upcoming weekend booked and paid for ??


Thank you all very much for any input, I greatly appreciate the advice of my more experienced colleagues.
atvb

Tim

Tim

In my personal opinion, I think you would get a Variation on .243 on the basis of what you have explained. Your permissions may well contain larger deer than Munties and CWD; I don't think you need to go into such detail and I would suggest that you just get the land cleared for .243 if it isn't already. The Paid Stalking bookings will help, as well as the DSC1 booking. I'm assuming your FAC purchases would show reasonable usage of ammunition for .223?
I know nothing of Herts and their attitude however. The worst that can happen is that they say 'no'. Might be worth giving your shooting organisation a ring too (BASC? BDS?). Don't forget a Mod too.
Good luck with it.

Naseby
 

Evillemon

Well-Known Member
Well as far as i have seen, there are no Roe, however there is a high seat on one permission left from an older gentleman who no longer shoots there which suggests to me that possibly they might have been or still are occasionally visiting. I recently also heard from a friend that he knows someone who claims to have shot a Roe Buck right next door to my other permission ... so its not impossible, i just haven't seen any there myself.

Possibly then it might be better to wait till after my DSC1 to apply, only i know there is a shooting test as part of the DSC and therefore thought it might be better to get my own .243 first and get some shooting practice with it before i take it to use in the test.
 
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Evillemon

Well-Known Member
Thanks Naseby, that's encouraging. Yes i would hope that my FAC reflects a good year of ammunition purchases, i dont think there has been a weekend when i didnt go out shooting since i got my ticket :)
 

Naseby

Well-Known Member
Thanks Naseby, that's encouraging. Yes i would hope that my FAC reflects a good year of ammunition purchases, i dont think there has been a weekend when i didnt go out shooting since i got my ticket :)

Yes, you may wish to buy some more .223 before you apply for that variation too. I expect you will be busy with the CWD Season approaching
 

paul o'

Well-Known Member
in essex we need to show the booking letter for the stalk or boar hunt and this is good reason for obtaining a .243 or larger cal as per the law's for roe fallow etc
as long as its the same your end can't see why not ,don't forget exp ammo and if you reload add exp missiles - exp bullets.
:tiphat:
 

stag1933

Well-Known Member
Apply for a moderator for the .243 at the same time as there will be only the one standard variation fee to pay so effectively `you buy one and get one free`.
This in itself could be used for a free`one-for-one` deal in the future if not purchased now.
Whilst the DSC is helpful I do not think that it is compulsory. Booking letters are always a help however.

HWH.
 

badbob

Well-Known Member
too many good reasons..more than many folk
keep it simple
(a) .223 for foxes
(b) a larger calibre (.243 or what ever) for deer, of whatever species (and moderators as Stag says)
 

Evillemon

Well-Known Member
Thank you all very much for your input, its given me the confidence to submit a variation. Printing out the forms now :)
 

The tramp

Well-Known Member
Home office guidelines state that you should be granted a larger, deer legal cal if there is the likelihood that larger species will be there in the future, or words to that effect.

Regards
Pete
 

User0001

Well-Known Member
Can't see any reason why you should have any problems. Make sure you clearly state that you want both calibres for any lawful quarry or they may take deer off your .223.

Don't want to start a whole new debate but, are you sure that .243 would be the best calibre to complement a .223? If you are happy with the .223 for your muntjac then I would be tempted to go .308/7mm-08/.270/.30-06 for your second rifle.
 

Malxwal

Well-Known Member
With my recent dealings as regards variation, I was told that paid stalking is not an acceptable excuse for owning a larger caliber (I inquired about a .308).
My FEO initially suggested it would be sticky to have the two roe legal calibers, but that doesn't apply in Engerlandshire. He then suggested good reason to have the smaller .223 I had suggested added based on the proximity of housing.
Your only problem might be that they suggest swapping the 223 for a 243 ?
 

Evillemon

Well-Known Member
Can't see any reason why you should have any problems. Make sure you clearly state that you want both calibres for any lawful quarry or they may take deer off your .223.

Don't want to start a whole new debate but, are you sure that .243 would be the best calibre to complement a .223? If you are happy with the .223 for your muntjac then I would be tempted to go .308/7mm-08/.270/.30-06 for your second rifle.

I have thought about that, although i would love to have a 308 the issue would be that although it would be great for paid stalking none of my own current permissions would allow me to shoot that caliber as they are only cleared up to .243. I figured that the .243 will see me well for nearly everything and at the same time should i wish to take it out and use it i can at my local permissions - even if that is just to check my zero prior to a paid stalking weekend.

Plus in the future i guess if stalking Red deer became a real / regular option for me i could always put in another variation for a 308 / 30-06 and have all 3 :)
 
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mereside

Well-Known Member
if its cleared for 243 no reason not to be cleared for the 308 or any other cal, if you have deer on your perm then put down for deer you have good reason to use another cal or stick with the 243 if your happy you will be shooting it ,but me i would go larger for more scope this shooting lark is addictive and it soon has you spending all your time driving up and down the country in persuite of them deers, atb wayne
 

Toxster

Well-Known Member
Once you have done DSC1 it will sail through, a paid stalk will also help. Stick down Boar, Deer, AOLQ to avoid later hassle (if going for the .308); Deer and AOLQ if you stick with .243.
 

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