amax for deer as all bullets are now classed as section one

[ashray]

have used soft lead tip bullets and solid copper<never again>.i have had pass through with norma soft point and massive damage with sierra gameking and pro hunter.for me the most damage/wasted meat bullet was the speer hot core bullet small entry but tennis ball/fist size exit and massive bruising.so to sum up MY FINDINGS.ihave loaded and tried many bullet over the last thirty years and have found the amax do the job as well as if not better than so called deer bullets.i know this will up- set some people this is not the intention. i have used lots of factory rounds ,federal/sako/rws noma etc etc.my reloads are 2700fps for the 6.5 and 308 so not hot but very accurate with the amax bullet.my rifles are used every day and i shoot pest/vermin and deer.and everything is as far as possible killed humanely.any one with a different bullet choice like to enlighten me on their findings? as i say just out of interest.

 

[palmer_mike]

They were legal for deer in England and Wales anyway......

 

[nick.308]

I had an interesting chat with someone who has compared hornady amax with sst and he confirmed there is no difference

 

[nick.308]

He tested them in ballistic gel I meant to add

 

[Ranger22]

I can't fault the A max bullet, does everything well. Surprised that the OP won't use copper, I have to use it at work and find it very good. I use it in a 270 and find it very accurate and hard hitting.

 

[mealiejimmy]

In Scotland, for the shooting of all deer species, it's been illegal since 1985 to use a bullet which is not "of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner"
Expanding ammunition became S5 in 1997 and since then, the Home Office have consistently said that they do not consider A max to be an expanding bullet (despite all the evidence to the contrary)
So up here, A max remains a no no for deer.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Dalua]

So up here, A max remains a no no for deer.

I think the HO's opinion of the nature of AMax bullets' expanding properties might have been made for the sake of practical expedience (given their UK-market mainly among target-shooters) rather than ballistic reality.

I wonder, therefore, whether it is correct to extrapolate that AMax may not lawfully be used to shoot deer in Scotland?

 

[Shootist]

A-Max and deer is a complete illustration of the stupidity of people who make firearms law. V-Max is designed to expand, A-Max is designed for accuracy but happens to expand just the same as V-Max. They both expand the same, but one is legal for deer in Scotland, the other is not. Until now, in England and Wales A-Max has been legal for deer but was not S.5, while V-Max was prohibited from ordinary sale being S.5. Hornady also make a 100 grain 'Varmint' round marketed for it's explosive expansion. It is a plain lead bullet with a sort of extended gas check for about half it's length. It will expand as well as any other lead bullet will. However it is marketed the fact is it could not be described as 'designed' to expand on impact so it remained S.1. Bloody stupid people making laws about things they do not understand.

 

[Shootist]

In Scotland, for the shooting of all deer species, it's been illegal since 1985 to use a bullet which is not "of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner"
Expanding ammunition became S5 in 1997 and since then, the Home Office have consistently said that they do not consider A max to be an expanding bullet (despite all the evidence to the contrary)
So up here, A max remains a no no for deer.

Cheers

Bruce

No offence meant, but you illustrate the exact problem with discussing 'expanding ammunition'.

The home Office correctly identifies the A-Max as a bullet that is not designed to expand upon impact. They will certainly accept that it does expand and is 'expanding ammunition' but the issue is whether it was designed to. The A-Max bullet can correctly be described as an expanding bullet for sure. So, to correct your statement...

"Ammunition designed to expand became S.5 in 1997...

But you are correct that in Scotland A-Max remains a no no for deer. If push came to shove I am fairly sure that a competent lawyer could make a case for A-Max being designed to expand on impact by default as it will certainly expand on impact and it could have been designed not to by making it a full metal jacket. But who wants to be a test case? I might also add, who the hell is going to find out?

 

[furiouspilgrim]

If you had an A-Max and a V-Max in your hand, would you be able to tell them apart...

 

[straightpull6547]

If you had an A-Max and a V-Max in your hand, would you be able to tell them apart...

or in your ear

 

[Dalua]

or in your ear

What?

 

[liongeorge]

Surely this argument is null and void as those that chose A max because you could post it no longer have to and can choose any expanding ammunition they like.....perhaps something more suitable.

I thought A max was about the same as V max not SST (thicker jacket) and ballistic gel test has no bones etc in it so not an accurate test on live quarry

 

[Druid]

or in your ear

Pardon?

 

[ashray]

lion george,good evening.i have used amax for many years not because they could be posted but because they are very accurate and work very well for me on any targeted animal and i personally prefer the amax to any soft point and i have tried quite a few.each to their own but amax work for me.

 

[Dalua]

Pardon?

Just five minutes sooner this would have been witty and original.

 

[Druid]

Just five minutes sooner this would have been witty and original.

I've been busy.

 

[liongeorge]

lion george,good evening.i have used amax for many years not because they could be posted but because they are very accurate and work very well for me on any targeted animal and i personally prefer the amax to any soft point and i have tried quite a few.each to their own but amax work for me.

Fair enough

 

[Monkey Spanker]

playing devils advocate and just out of interested,no knickers in a knot please but...as all rifle bullets become section one tomorrow this means that legally the amax can be used as a deer bullet although classed as a target bullet it is a soft point bullet and does expand so does meet the deer standard.i have used amax in several calibers over the years and never had any issues.i have culled muntjac/roe and fallow using 123gr in 6.5 and 155gr in 308 no excessive damage,you have to damage them to kill them.i have used soft lead tip bullets and solid copper<never again>.i have had pass through with norma soft point and massive damage with sierra gameking and pro hunter.for me the most damage/wasted meat bullet was the speer hot core bullet small entry but tennis ball/fist size exit and massive bruising.so to sum up MY FINDINGS.ihave loaded and tried many bullet over the last thirty years and have found the amax do the job as well as if not better than so called deer bullets.i know this will up- set some people this is not the intention. i have used lots of factory rounds ,federal/sako/rws noma etc etc.my reloads are 2700fps for the 6.5 and 308 so not hot but very accurate with the amax bullet.my rifles are used every day and i shoot pest/vermin and deer.and everything is as far as possible killed humanely.any one with a different bullet choice like to enlighten me on their findings? as i say just out of interest.

The only thing that has changed is firearms law! The law which dictates what you can or can't shoot deer with is the Deer Act which remains unchanged. A-Max is a hollow nosed bullet which is legal in England and Wales where the Deer Act states that either a hollow or soft nosed bullet is required. However, in Scotland it is arguably illegal as a deer legal bullet must expand in a predictable manner which a target bullet is not designed to do and has not been tested as such. Deer law has not changed!
MS

 

[Orion]

playing devils advocate and just out of interested,no knickers in a knot please but...as all rifle bullets become section one tomorrow this means that legally the amax can be used as a deer bullet although classed as a target bullet it is a soft point bullet and does expand so does meet the deer standard.

Wromg on a number of points I'm afraid.

Rifle bullets will not become S.1 as they will not be subject to any control.

A-Max are not soft-point bullets, they are hollow-point with a polymer tip in the cavity.

A-Max have always been 'deer legal' in England & Wales and have never had to satisfy any requirement to expand - it's not mentioned under the Deer Act definition for ammunition.

What's changed with regard to A-Max?