And another defeat

Olaf

Well-Known Member
I have watched TM and Westminster politicians be-little our referendum vote of 2016 and thoroughly embarrass our country .. The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.
The world is watching and laughing at us.
They should all be ashamed of themselves.
I cannot imagine the voting public will ever forgive them.
If you think that the UK is a laughingstock for all the world to see. Just wait and see how much worse we look if Brexit continues.
To push on with Brexit is absolutely ridiculous.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 

deeangeo

Well-Known Member
If you think that the UK is a laughingstock for all the world to see. Just wait and see how much worse we look if Brexit continues.
To push on with Brexit is absolutely ridiculous.
Kindest regards, Olaf
It’s got bugger all to do with whatever stitch up happens next.
It has everything to do with the sewer that is Westminster, incumbent politicians, and the dis-service already foisted upon UK citizens.
The incumbent politicians of all party’s are an absolute disgrace.
 

foxdropper

Well-Known Member
The whole thing has been a political cock up from beginning to wherever it ends.
Politicians: liars, thieves and cheats .. all of them!
The public will express their views in the next General Election.
I would say with an educated guess that many won’t vote at all .This country needs a radical parliamentary change from hand wringers and doom and gloom mongers to doers and go getters .
 

Finch

Well-Known Member
If you think that the UK is a laughingstock for all the world to see. Just wait and see how much worse we look if Brexit continues.
To push on with Brexit is absolutely ridiculous.
Kindest regards, Olaf
You need treatment for your Stockholm Syndrome.
I hope you never meet a burglar in your house. You'll kiss his feet and hand over your first born child.

It's not the (now irreversible) determination of the electorate to leave the EU that is laughable. It's the state of denial of this fact by our weak, delusional and inadequate political class and their craven cowardice, capitulation, incompetence and dishonesty. That's what the world is laughing at, insofar as you can laugh at affliction, though I think it's more a case of stunned disbelief and collective embarrassment.

Still if craven cowardice, capitulation, incompetence and dishonesty floats your boat, you crack on and roll over. But the rest of us are made of different stuff. The genie's out of the bottle and the bottle's been smashed. This aint going away so get used to it.
 

Olaf

Well-Known Member
It’s got bugger all to do with whatever stitch up happens next.
It has everything to do with the sewer that is Westminster, incumbent politicians, and the dis-service already foisted upon UK citizens.
The incumbent politicians of all party’s are an absolute disgrace.
I’d agree with you to a certain extent.
The bottom line is though that however you cut it, Brexit now needs to be cancelled.
To push on with it given the utterly ridiculous choices on offer is just self destruction in the name of ‘ democracy ‘.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 

Olaf

Well-Known Member
You need treatment for your Stockholm Syndrome.
I hope you never meet a burglar in your house. You'll kiss his feet and hand over your first born child.

It's not the (now irreversible) determination of the electorate to leave the EU that is laughable. It's the state of denial of this fact by our weak, delusional and inadequate political class and their craven cowardice, capitulation, incompetence and dishonesty. That's what the world is laughing at, insofar as you can laugh at affliction, though I think it's more a case of stunned disbelief and collective embarrassment.

Still if craven cowardice, capitulation, incompetence and dishonesty floats your boat, you crack on and roll over. But the rest of us are made of different stuff. The genie's out of the bottle and the bottle's been smashed. This aint going away so get used to it.
I am very well aware that Beliefs of many regarding a leaving of the EU will not go away, I’m perfectly happy with that. If that’s what people want then that’s fine by me, providing it delivers us something good and not the absolute mess that pushing on with Brexit will currently cause.
With respect to you, What I think that you fail to realise is that my view on cancelling Article 50 is based on it being the only way now to put the UK back in a positive position with a strong hand.
It’s called a strategic retreat. That and basic common sense!
Kindest regards, Olaf
 

Uncle f

Well-Known Member
So we voted out (majority) and because the powers that be can’t decide (because they are full of there own **** and importance) we have decided that perhaps we will stay for a bit and maybe hope A/ it all goes away or B/ we broker a new deal which will more than likely be mostly in and out a bit

They have had 2 and a bit years
We need to leave on the 29th simple no matter what happens. The whole of Europe is now watching and laughing at the incompetent shower in Westminster. I said this before if we leave it maybe bad but equally it maybe good. The simple fact is NO ONE KNOWS
To me the most important thing is we get out as that is what was voted for. No delays no more negotiations OUT immediately

We’re still have food on the table, fuel in the cars etc. I’ve said this before labour done more damage to this country in there administrations than leaving Europe ever will and that is a fact
 

AGR

Well-Known Member
I am very well aware that Beliefs of many regarding a leaving of the EU will not go away, I’m perfectly happy with that. If that’s what people want then that’s fine by me, providing it delivers us something good and not the absolute mess that pushing on with Brexit will currently cause.
With respect to you, What I think that you fail to realise is that my view on cancelling Article 50 is based on it being the only way now to put the UK back in a positive position with a strong hand.
It’s called a strategic retreat. That and basic common sense!
Kindest regards, Olaf
There is no positive position. If we don't leave now they will have us bent over the desk like naughty schoolboys. Perhaps one good thing to come out of the whole debacle is that certain politicians have finally shown their true colours and will be judged!
 

deeangeo

Well-Known Member
There is no positive position. If we don't leave now they will have us bent over the desk like naughty schoolboys. Perhaps one good thing to come out of the whole debacle is that certain politicians have finally shown their true colours and will be judged!
Well, I almost agree with you, except that the sewer that is the House of Commons/Westminster, just ruled out a 'No Deal' Brexit...and that makes a huge difference.
Had we been able to walk away without a deal, then I believe we'd have been in a much stronger position.
Currently, we TM bribing & cajoling her twice voted down deal along... and if we part with that deal...I'd say we've still been crapped on from a great height.

Given the chance however, we probably should take the line of a 'strategic retreat', cancel Article 50, sort the politicians out at the next General Election, with a Brexit PM, then pull out of the EU promptly.
Walk away, NO DEAL & trade WTO.
It takes three years or so longer. Slowly slowly catchee monkey! - just as long as those voting in a new referendum still vote to leave with a majority.
 

Highlandsjohn

Well-Known Member
IF all that bad, why are the EU doing their best to keep us in.:-|. 52% voted out and out we should go....better late than never, despite the morons in Westminster.
Oh, and the next time any of them ridicule us, remind them of their SURRENDER, June 2nd,1940,when we had to pull their arse out of the fire, the French being the major protagonist in this cluster fk. john
 

Olaf

Well-Known Member
Well, I almost agree with you, except that the sewer that is the House of Commons/Westminster, just ruled out a 'No Deal' Brexit...and that makes a huge difference.
Had we been able to walk away without a deal, then I believe we'd have been in a much stronger position.
Currently, we TM bribing & cajoling her twice voted down deal along... and if we part with that deal...I'd say we've still been crapped on from a great height.

Given the chance however, we probably should take the line of a 'strategic retreat', cancel Article 50, sort the politicians out at the next General Election, with a Brexit PM, then pull out of the EU promptly.
Walk away, NO DEAL & trade WTO.
It takes three years or so longer. Slowly slowly catchee monkey! - just as long as those voting in a new referendum still vote to leave with a majority.
What people need to get their heads around ( leavers and remainders) is that the 2016 referendum was a total joke , far too unclear in many ways, lies and Lies and hate propaganda , racism and hand wringing; the lot. The ‘negotiations ‘ have also been absolutely ridiculous and that if you have a broken country, you will quite naturally have a broken bickering parliament. And that is just how it was and currently still is.
By termination of article 50, we can have a General Election ( heigh time !!) clean things up and get our ship back in order and leave in a simple and well prepared orderly way, if that’s what people still genuinely want.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 

deeangeo

Well-Known Member
IF all that bad, why are the EU doing their best to keep us in.:-|.
They want the dosh HG, they want the dosh! They particularly don't want us to walk away on a NO Deal, because that way they'd get sweet FA.
However, now that the sewer of Westminster has ruled out a NO DEAL departure...we're screwed!
So, cancel Article 50, Sack TM, Elect a Brexit PM, have a General Election, remove any MP's who are 'Remainers' then another referendum and fully abide by the democratic decision.
If that decision is 'Leave' ... walk away .. NO negotiation.
 

Sheprador1973

Well-Known Member
Not getting involved as life's too short but just wondering in general political terms WHEN it is ok and democratic to hold a second referendum on the same issue (in the eyes of you, the voters)? Genuinely interested as I don't have the answer myself. PS I don't necessarily mean this issue.
 
Last edited:

Uncle f

Well-Known Member
Don’t agree I’m afraid. I made my decision to vote out with no pushing from either camp. I think you underestimate the mass electorate to possibly suggest they may or may not have been swayed by any of either either campaigns lies and propaganda. We wanted the vote years ago that is why Cameron pledge it. We got the vote and we voted. I do agree that the negotiations have been absurd and ridiculous but having a general election would not be an answer as who is there to vote for? They are all incompetent and self serving.

The eu vote had one of the largest turnouts of voters in British history that is how important it was to all of us. I would not be so confident in saying that about a new general election.

What most remainers seem to forget is the vote was lost by them simple end of. The vote was a simple in or out, not half in or half out or mostly out and a bit in!!!!

I voted out and not what deal I wanted etc etc.
All of our MP’s have shown there true colours and all should be shown the door but that won’t happen of course.

We even have a convicted criminal on a tag who has served time at her majesty’s pleasure back in parliament this i agree is another argument however it does show there complete disregard for us as an electorate. What other job/industry would that happen in. Certainly not one involving firearms that’s for sure.
 

Olaf

Well-Known Member
Don’t agree I’m afraid. I made my decision to vote out with no pushing from either camp. I think you underestimate the mass electorate to possibly suggest they may or may not have been swayed by any of either either campaigns lies and propaganda. We wanted the vote years ago that is why Cameron pledge it. We got the vote and we voted. I do agree that the negotiations have been absurd and ridiculous but having a general election would not be an answer as who is there to vote for? They are all incompetent and self serving.

The eu vote had one of the largest turnouts of voters in British history that is how important it was to all of us. I would not be so confident in saying that about a new general election.

What most remainers seem to forget is the vote was lost by them simple end of. The vote was a simple in or out, not half in or half out or mostly out and a bit in!!!!

I voted out and not what deal I wanted etc etc.
All of our MP’s have shown there true colours and all should be shown the door but that won’t happen of course.

We even have a convicted criminal on a tag who has served time at her majesty’s pleasure back in parliament this i agree is another argument however it does show there complete disregard for us as an electorate. What other job/industry would that happen in. Certainly not one involving firearms that’s for sure.
Your making one very big and unfounded assumption there and that is that the people that voted for Brexit were all perfectly happy with ditching our EU membership without a deal or either with that joke of a deal Mrs May keeps on wasting everybody’s time and energy on.
The people I know or have spoken to that voted for Brexit, bar a very small number, are all absolutely horrified at what has been done with their votes and wish they hadn’t voted in favour of Brexit. Some of them have lost their jobs as a result of the relocation of UK investment. I feel quite sorry for them.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 

Uncle f

Well-Known Member
So what do they think they were voting for the question was in or out? Nothing more nothing less. Again banging on about the same old point NO ONE KNOWS or indeed knew then at that point but we all still voted one way or the other. We were asked to cast our vote at that time on why we knew not what was likely to happen or what may happen. I had my suspicions that it would lead to a cluster **** this end but I wanted out and to hell with whatever consequences that will entail positive or not. I run my own business and it’s effecting me quite a bit now however we as a firm will get on with it and get by because we have too. Because the other option is to give up starting crying and bemoan the fact it’s all ****. We know it is but I’m not going to fail as a business, as a parent and as a husband because a load of old self righteous liberals say so in there lack of actions in Westminster
 

Olaf

Well-Known Member
So what do they think they were voting for the question was in or out? Nothing more nothing less. Again banging on about the same old point NO ONE KNOWS or indeed knew then at that point but we all still voted one way or the other. We were asked to cast our vote at that time on why we knew not what was likely to happen or what may happen. I had my suspicions that it would lead to a cluster **** this end but I wanted out and to hell with whatever consequences that will entail positive or not. I run my own business and it’s effecting me quite a bit now however we as a firm will get on with it and get by because we have too. Because the other option is to give up starting crying and bemoan the fact it’s all ****. We know it is but I’m not going to fail as a business, as a parent and as a husband because a load of old self righteous liberals say so in there lack of actions in Westminster
I think that the vast majority of leave voters didn’t know what a mess it would create for themselves , nor the damage it would cause to the UK and Europe. That’s the problem.
I say cancel Brexit and do it properly with a clear manifesto that isn’t based on lies and is realistic.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 

deeangeo

Well-Known Member
Don’t agree I’m afraid. I made my decision to vote out with no pushing from either camp. I think you underestimate the mass electorate to possibly suggest they may or may not have been swayed by any of either either campaigns lies and propaganda. We wanted the vote years ago that is why Cameron pledge it. We got the vote and we voted. I do agree that the negotiations have been absurd and ridiculous but having a general election would not be an answer as who is there to vote for? They are all incompetent and self serving.

The eu vote had one of the largest turnouts of voters in British history that is how important it was to all of us. I would not be so confident in saying that about a new general election.

What most remainers seem to forget is the vote was lost by them simple end of. The vote was a simple in or out, not half in or half out or mostly out and a bit in!!!!

I voted out and not what deal I wanted etc etc.
All of our MP’s have shown there true colours and all should be shown the door but that won’t happen of course.

We even have a convicted criminal on a tag who has served time at her majesty’s pleasure back in parliament this i agree is another argument however it does show there complete disregard for us as an electorate. What other job/industry would that happen in. Certainly not one involving firearms that’s for sure.
Yup, I'm in your camp.
BUT in the HoC they've now ruled out a hard No Deal Brexit. So we're left with May's crappy deal or delay.
The only way of bringing that back is to cancel A50 and with a new referendum & Brexit PM/government (Not Corbyn's Communist Labour) restart the process.
It's a screw up, but I, in my simple understanding, believe that to be the only way to a hard NO DEAL Brexit.
 

deeangeo

Well-Known Member
I think that the vast majority of leave voters didn’t know what a mess it would create for themselves , nor the damage it would cause to the UK and Europe. That’s the problem.
I say cancel Brexit and do it properly with a clear manifesto that isn’t based on lies and is realistic.
Kindest regards, Olaf
The vast majority of Leave voters simply want absolutely NO interference in UK affairs from the EU.
Nor do I/they want to be part of a 'Federal States of Europe'.
It is irrelevant to many that a deal be negotiated, simply that a form of co-operation exists with regard to trade and international defence and security etc.
The 'Mess' has been created by TM's absolute failure of negotiation, her advisers, a needless General Election (which TM screwed up) and 'Remain' politicians with their own vested interests obstructing the course the Brexit path ought to have taken.
I repeat - Our politicians are an absolute disgrace.
 

Top