Assume I'm suffering from IR glare / reflection?

[Ciganka762]

Hi all - At the risk of answering my own question!....

I was using a C50 scope with a Sun Ranger 2 illuminator (LED unit)

Every time I went out with a mate the illuminator mounted on his rifle looked FAR more powerful than mine did when I viewed it through my scope.

And it was just the basic cheapo illuminator that came with a Wulf scope he had a couple of years ago.

So I bought a Wulf standalone illuminator thinking that would help. It didn't seem to make any difference to be fair although the lamp is much better than I expected - particularly given it was half the price!

Am I right in thinking this effect is caused by IR bounce-back from my mod / barrel when using my own illuminator, which is not a factor when I see my mates illuminator from a different angle?

Has anyone else experienced this 'phenomenon'?

 

[BLUEROLL]

Yes it is possible if your Ir is mounted low and the C50 is trying to limit the amount of IR. Sometimes a strip of black insulation tape across the bottom of the C50 objective lens will help.

 

[B&W FOX]

I used to use extra high mounts on all my digital scopes and mount the IR's high above the scopes.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

The image through your scope will always be better from an IR pointing at a different angle rather than one pointing through your line of sight.
Re the mod reflection It could be light spill from the Sunranger if its set on flood, do you get reflection if you have beam narrowed?

 

[Foxyboy43]

A cheap figure of eight clamp mount with the torch hanging below the barrel would sort out bounce.

 

[Ciganka762]

do you get reflection if you have beam narrowed?

The effect is the same actually, regardless of how focussed my beam is. My mates always looks brighter.

Hoping to borrow a high mount later and also to move the sun ranger towards the back of the scope. At present the head of the torch is only just behind the scope objective.

 

[Tim.243]

The effect is the same actually, regardless of how focussed my beam is. My mates always looks brighter.

Hoping to borrow a high mount later and also to move the sun ranger towards the back of the scope. At present the head of the torch is only just behind the scope objective.

If I get what you are asking then put rifle on sticks or a solid surface and ask you friend to hold the IR at the mount height then (I used a bit of 2x1) then holding it up right went up in height until the problem was solved (better image)
This was for a NM800 as I was getting Mod glare but the method is the same by getting the right height.

 

[Clive Ward]

If you have an IR off axis it will always look much better.

There is no direct bounce back from any moisture or dust in the air, and the image has depth because you can see the shadows cast by the off axis light.

For mounting, I would suggest mounting the IR as far back as possible with the mount you already have.

The objective should then cast a shadow of any light spill.

You can easily check by viewing the rifle with the Pard hand held to see if the IR is hitting the barrel / moderator.


Cheers





Clive

 

[Ciganka762]

you have an IR off axis it will always look much better.

There is no direct bounce back from any moisture or dust in the air, and the image has depth because you can see the shadows cast by the off axis light.

Thanks that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Ratsbadboy]

Do you switch your ir off when the scene is illuminated from your mates ir torch? If the scene is being illuminated by two torches it's likely to look brighter.

 

[TringSaint]

Stupid question alert!
Given the above issues with separately mounted IR torches, does this then make all in one units like the zulus a better option, ie its been designed not to have this issue?
Asking for a friend!

 

[Pellet Pinger]

No because the Zulus type scopes sit a lot higher on the action thus clearing the moderator.

 

[Smellydog]

I have had glare from a mod so moved the illuminater back to create shadow.
A no reflective material will help diagnose your issue!

 

[TringSaint]

No because the Zulus type scopes sit a lot higher on the action thus clearing the moderator.

Ah, ok, so it’s not the relative position of the IR torch and the objective lens that causes the issue - I guess that has been built into the design of an all in one unit like the zulus.
Was undecided between the Hik Alpex and the Zulus, but I can’t be done with faffing around trying to resolve an issue like excessive glare, so that leans me more towards the Zulus.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Ah, ok, so it’s not the relative position of the IR torch and the objective lens that causes the issue - I guess that has been built into the design of an all in one unit like the zulus.
Was undecided between the Hik Alpex and the Zulus, but I can’t be done with faffing around trying to resolve an issue like excessive glare, so that leans me more towards the Zulus.

The Zulus isn’t without potential fault being fixed. You won’t know how the IR will line up until you mount it, both of mine could do with the IR beam pointing higher.

 

[TringSaint]

The Zulus isn’t without potential fault being fixed. You won’t know how the IR will line up until you mount it, both of mine could do with the IR beam pointing higher.

Are you able to adjust it, ie via an adjustment or a bodge?

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Are you able to adjust it, ie via an adjustment or a bodge?

No its fixed so you would have to alter whole scope up
or down which would change the reticle position to keep zero.
Don’t get me wrong its not that bad but if it was adjustable i would definitely move it higher to give more throw and minimise the foreground being too illuminated.

 

[TringSaint]

No its fixed so you would have to alter whole scope up
or down which would change the reticle position to keep zero.
Don’t get me wrong its not that bad but if it was adjustable i would definitely move it higher to give more throw and minimise the foreground being too illuminated.

So I was thinking about using a 0moa rail, so am I correct in thinking that this is what you refer to when you say alter the scope position or are you talking about using shims?

 

[Pellet Pinger]

So I was thinking about using a 0moa rail, so am I correct in thinking that this is what you refer to when you say alter the scope position or are you talking about using shims?

Which rail depends on a few things, what type of rifle, relationship of barrel and action (not being perfectly true for instance) what zero distance, bullet trajectory etc.
The aim is to have the reticle central
in the screen. If its high up the screen the IR will point downwards, if its lower vise versa. In the days of the Pard 008 i always shimmed them so the reticle was quite far towards the bottom of the screen, this gave noticeably more throw to the IR.
The point being with the likes of the Alpex and C50 it doesn’t matter where your reticle is on the screen you can adjust your illuminator to suit, you can’t do that with the likes of the Zulus.

 

[Ciganka762]

Do you switch your ir off when the scene is illuminated from your mates ir torch? If the scene is being illuminated by two torches it's likely to look brighter.

That’s a good question - viewed side by side though my scope my mates illuminated circle looks brighter. If I turn mine off it gives superior performance to mine.

I think Clive might have hit the nail on the head here with his reply. I’m not convinced it really is all down to glare after all.

Having said that I have now mounted the IR far back on the scope tube and will also get a higher mount. The ludicrous lumens qd ones are rather low.