At what point

The Croc

Well-Known Member
Does Calibre choice become personal preference.
ie 22 hornet has a range and bullet weight advantage over 22 rimfire
likewise 243 over 22 hornet.
Now without going to plains game or dangerous game, just sticking to UK deer species, and using both metric and imperial calibres, is there a cut off point for advantage and from then on personal preference?

Just curious

Brian
 

Muir

Well-Known Member
I agree. The question is one that will generate considerable response, and probably debate, and never provide an answer to your question. It's like walking into a room full people and asking what icecream flavor is the best. Better narrow the scope, Amigo.~Muir
 

Frax

Well-Known Member
Yes there is a point....it lies exactly at 6.5x55 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now runs, ducking, for the door. (well, someone had to get it going!)
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
Is anybody going to be brave enough to start off the war, err I mean debate, because I'm not :D :D

John
 

jingzy

Account Suspended
Frax,

I know the weather in Skye has been bad Frax, but you are verging on suicide there. Keep your head down from the incoming .270 and .300 brigade.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

caorach

Well-Known Member
Yip, I'm going to dive in and make some unsupported statements which I will then stick to for the duration of the debate :)

In the end it is always personal choice and I think that is a very good thing. We live in a country with CCTV on every corner and a government that is telling you how to carry your shopping home from the shops and what to put in your bin. They also want to restrict how you can drive to work, what speed you can drive at and have a commitment to force people onto collectivized transport systems. Almost every aspect of our lives is now monitored and controlled "for our own good." Stalkers in general seem not to be the type that like having their lives controlled "for their own good."

Under such circumstances I think it is only fair that people are allowed some freedom from the nanny state and while the state certainly attempts to interfer we still have a reasonable choice of calibre/cartridge open to us and I believe that people should be free to make this choice. I'm a big fan of the bog standard boring stuff just to make life simple and so I have a 308 Win. It is legal for all deer in the UK, you can get ammo nearly everywhere, there is a good availability when it comes to reloading and in terms of performance at <200 yard stalking ranges it is within an inch of anything out there. For me those were good reasons to have it but I defend the position of others to select something different.

In terms of ethics and the intent of the OP I suspect that most people on this site are using a cartridge that is up to the job. There is always going to be some debate about whether 243 is enough for a big stag for example but I would venture to suggest that, while it wouldn't be the one for me, anyone who is having problems with it is likely to change to something bigger. With this in mind I suspect that the cartridge performance aspect of our sport is largely self regulating, at least for the ethical sportsman.

Based upon this logic I believe that most stalkers are capable of understanding the limits of cartridge performance and of selecting a cartridge that suits them and that is up to the job. No stalker is going to "prefer" a 22lr for red stags and so the decision they make is going to be personal preference sitting atop a good pile of common sense. In my view this is the way it should be and we should encourage diversity within our sport as in the long run it encourages all of us to take responsibility for our decisions and, therefore, to be responsible, careful, sensible and safe stalkers.
 

stag1933

Well-Known Member
There is not such a thing as a`best calibre`, correct bullet placement at a sensible distance determines the final result .
Type of bullet selected in ANY calibre can also seriously affect the final outcome .

From 1972 to 1993 I shot many deer in Eire with .22/250 , 5.6X57 and 5.6X61 Vom. Hofe Super Express because of perverse legislation .
Of these the .22/250 was the worst and the Vom Hofe the best having a muzzle energy similar to that of a 7X57 , also the 77gr bullet utilised was designed for shooting Roe and Chamois not small furry and feathered creatures .

Since 1961 I have shot many hundreds of deer of seven species from Muntjac to Moose but have always followed the path of the late Robert Ruark whose password was `USE ENOUGH GUN`.

Here in our own land for Deer I have used mainly 7X65R , 7mm Rem. Mag., .30/06 , and .270 .
Some were shot with .243 , 7X64 , 8X68S and .300 Win. Mag.

In Sweden I have shot Roe and Beaver with the 6.5X55 but have never rated it any better than most of the others I have used .

As stated previously a correctly placed shot at a sensible distance with a suitable projectile is the way forward for correct and humane management of any creature .

HWH .
 

The Croc

Well-Known Member
Is somebody saying I've opened a can worms and started a fervent discussion (calibre war) moi shurely not :lol: :lol:


Stag
Not looking for best calibre, everybody has the "best" calibre :lol:
I was wondering at point the calibres "merge" and from then on everything else is just personal preference.

Playing devils advocate :evil: at the moment, if we say 243 is the point at which calibres merge, then everything after that is personal preference, or maybe .270.

Brian
 

8x57

Distinguished Member
As stated previously a correctly placed shot at a sensible distance with a suitable projectile is the way forward for correct and humane management of any creature .
Summed up perfectly!
End of war, "Peace in our time".
 

cervushunter

Well-Known Member
The Croc,

I will stand up and say that 7mm 08 is the best thing since sliced bread and it should a good starting point for all comers to the sport. :D

Persons that have one will know what i am talking about if not get one and try it , i can honestly say that i know of very few people that change once they do have one ;)

You will get the chance to try one on the 3rd of April ;)
Speak soon

Regards Mark.
 

nuttyspaniel

Well-Known Member
Frax said:
Yes there is a point....it lies exactly at 6.5x55 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now runs, ducking, for the door. (well, someone had to get it going!)
No mate it's the 25-06!!!

That should get a good debate going!!! :evil: :evil:



cheers
nutty
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
The money and extensive testing for "the ideal" calibre was done a century ago, by the world's armies, as the new smokeless powders and metal jacketed bullets came in.

Simply put any rifle then thought efficient to kill a man will be efficient today at killing a deer.

But yet by 1914 we had 8mm Mannlicher, 8mm Mauser, 303, 30-06, 7mm Mauser, 6.5mm Mauser, 6mm Lee, etc., etc. So even then nobody could agree!

Yet within a very narrow band there is agreement. Bullets? Pretty much 100 grains to 180 grains. Velocity pretty much 2600 fps to 3100 fps. Diameter? Pretty much 6mm (.240") to 8mm (330").

The rest of it is just like buying an Easter egg! Its all pretty much the same flavour of chocolate but how much and what sort of packaging is then down to the individual buyer's fancy.
 

Frax

Well-Known Member
Yet within a very narrow band there is agreement. Bullets? Pretty much 100 grains to 180 grains. Velocity pretty much 2600 fps to 3100 fps. Diameter? Pretty much 6mm (.240") to 8mm (330").
So if we take up an approximate mid point of this, we get to pretty much the good old 308 (yes, I know it's not quite mid way) but it can cover all the bases, was exhaustively tested as a military calibre, is readily available in a wide range of bullet weights, is inherently accurate, there is a huge amount of reloading data available and with the correct bullet will cope with anything in these isles from CWD to boar. Take it abroad and it's 'OK' for bear, moose and plains game etc (with correct shot placement obviously).

Plus I hold it in great affection as I shot my first deer with it about 20 years ago!
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
I would disagree.

280 Remington/7 x 64/7 x 57 (or 7mm-08 which is basically doing to the 280 Remington/7 x 64/7 x 55 what the 308 did to the 30-06)is probably the ideal in terms of bullet weight range and velocity spread.

But 308 is a good choice.

Each to their own!
 

DL

Well-Known Member
caorach said:
In my view this is the way it should be and we should encourage diversity within our sport as in the long run it encourages all of us to take responsibility for our decisions and, therefore, to be responsible, careful, sensible and safe stalkers.
Caorach - I have noticed a couple of the posts you have been making are far to sensible & open minded for a site like this! ;)
The key board warriors & ballistic drop compensation deer snipers on here won't know what to think!

After all letting people do what they want to do within the bounds of ethical & legal reasons is a bit too generous,allowing grown ups to make decisions for themselves! Gosh who would have thought, in this day and age with the nanny state & vast amounts of red tape approaching.

Any way C, if you were a politician I would be pretty sure to vote for you with reasoned arguments,like the one you've presented.

Hopefully we can all be left to put venison in the freezer with minimum of fuss & the least awareness on the deer's part.

I have said enough for now, need to get in about my kit, Have a nice day everyone. Danny
 

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