Attitudes to non-indigenous deer species

Leica Amplus 6

Buckaroo8

Well-Known Member
Hi folks,
I recently read an article about the deliberate (and illegal) introduction of Axis deer to the big island of Hawaii, and the efforts to eradicate them.
Four years ago several deer were flown by helicopter across from a nearby island and were released by a group of men hoping to create a population of deer that they could then hunt. The Big Island Invasive Species Committee (BIISC) has hired professional hunters in order to cull all of the released deer as soon as possible and there is a court order which means that the helicopter pilot that helped to fly the deer onto the island is now being made to fly about looking for the released deer for free! anyway I couldn't help but make a comparison with the UK where the spread of non-indigenous deer species seems to be largely ignored and I'm not aware of any coordinated effort to halt or hamper the invasion of invasive deer species.
What do you think about the spread of non-indigenous deer species where you live/hunt? I'd be interested to hear opinions of members from abroad as well as from Britain
Cheers
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
Vermin:stir::popcorn:

Take my hat off to Hawaii, that's the way to do it esp if u can catch them very early and wipe them out afore they get established

The problem is in the uk most off the species are so wide spread there is absolutely nothing u can do about it. Plus to many bunny huggers would object to any animal genocide, esp if the animal is cute and cuddly (and to be fair many stalkers fall into the same category if it offers sport or nice to eat).

In some other countries they have wide spread government backed posioning campign's, some air dropped to kill non natives/ or in some cases all animals in a bid to try and keep them in control
 

norma 308

Well-Known Member
Yes ,great sport ,great to eat ,and give revenue to some from stalkers at home and abroad personally glad we have the non indigenous deer .
​norma
 

Buckaroo8

Well-Known Member
I like having the chance to stalk Munties, CWD and Sika in England but I wouldn't want them in Cornwall. If yet another alien species were to begin to get established in the UK would we welcome it or act like the Hawaiians I wonder?
 

270Buck

Well-Known Member
I like having the chance to stalk Munties, CWD and Sika in England but I wouldn't want them in Cornwall. If yet another alien species were to begin to get established in the UK would we welcome it or act like the Hawaiians I wonder?

I too think we are lucky to have invasive deer species, agreeably in certain circumstances they are not welcome in their newly found home.

Don't also forget to mention fallow too, they are not truly indigenous. Roe and red strictly speaking are the only deer species native to the UK.
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
Always the problem with deciding what is indigenous is the definition to use. Go back far enough in the mists of time and you'll find any species wasn't native to a particular area. Do we count what the Romans introduced indigenous? The Normans? What about species that have died out? Surely they aren't indigenous any more, the likes of beaver and wolves, for example.
 

Timbo61

Well-Known Member
Well, down here in what is touted to the rest of the world as "100% Clean green NZ", deer have noxious pest status, along with Possums, Rats, Stoats, and anything else that potentially threatens the so called Native environs and its bird life. To try and control these species, the NZ govt uses 1080 poison, often applied by helicopter. Unfortunately, even after 50 years or so of trying this method, NZ still has aprox the same number of Possums that we had 50 years ago...IF you believe the politicians. Deer sucumb to 1080, and die a slow painfull death, but due to them haveing pest status, nothing can be done to stop it, despite huge campaigns against it.
Culling introduced Deer by paid bushmen was undertaken in the early days, and I personally know old guys that shot in excess of 60 thousand animals in their careers. Despite all the above, deer numbers are still quite high throughout NZ, and provide meat and sport for many. If NZ didnt have introduced Deer, pigs, Chamois, Thar and Possums, there would be no hunting here. I for one, am gratefull for the failure of previous attempts to get rid of the deer especially.
 

Taff

Well-Known Member
I think we are talking about, a different scinario, a delicate Eco system, where as in the uk we do not have many areas of land that are on the same level, despite what the self appointed guardians of the country side will tell you
 

TOP_PREDATOR

Well-Known Member
Well, down here in what is touted to the rest of the world as "100% Clean green NZ", deer have noxious pest status, along with Possums, Rats, Stoats, and anything else that potentially threatens the so called Native environs and its bird life. To try and control these species, the NZ govt uses 1080 poison, often applied by helicopter. Unfortunately, even after 50 years or so of trying this method, NZ still has aprox the same number of Possums that we had 50 years ago...IF you believe the politicians. Deer sucumb to 1080, and die a slow painfull death, but due to them haveing pest status, nothing can be done to stop it, despite huge campaigns against it.
Culling introduced Deer by paid bushmen was undertaken in the early days, and I personally know old guys that shot in excess of 60 thousand animals in their careers. Despite all the above, deer numbers are still quite high throughout NZ, and provide meat and sport for many. If NZ didnt have introduced Deer, pigs, Chamois, Thar and Possums, there would be no hunting here. I for one, am gratefull for the failure of previous attempts to get rid of the deer especially.

New Zealand and Australia would be dead zones if not for the game animals released here in the early years.
 

Spix

Well-Known Member
I shoot Muntjac for a couple of small land owners purely on a 'pest control' basis, it keeps me busy, and to quote directly words of one, 'I'd like them wiped out'.

Given the very high numbers around here, Breckland, it's not an uncommon sentiment and they are certainly having an impact.
 

Buckaroo8

Well-Known Member
New Zealand and Australia would be dead zones if not for the game animals released here in the early years.
But would a botanist feel the same way as a hunter?
I suppose we should try and think objectively about introduced species and really try to weigh up the overall impact that they have. Surely, wherever you have non-native deer species there is a conflict of interest, as it is hunters who want to leave enough animals to hunt and yet the people who want the deer eradicated must rely heavily upon the hunters to achieve their goal of wiping the deer out.......
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
So what do muntjac ,sika, cwd, boar bring to the UK? So far the only argument is that a tiny number of the population of the UK can shoot them and they taste good. So thats a good reason for having them?
True they are already well established and are not going away.
Who in there right mind would think its a good idea to introduce Axis deer just so they could hunt them.
We have a shoot on site policy on white tail deer that can come over the border from Finland here in Sweden to stop them getting a foot hold. They may taste good but i don,t want them here.
A great looming battle we have ahead is to try and control the spread of Mårdhund (racoon dogs) That are spreading into Sweden from Finland.
Our Ground nesting bird life and small game is at great threat from these animals. I'me sure there are some idiots out there who think it would be a good idea to have them to provide a bit of sport for them and there dogs.
 

bogtrotter

Well-Known Member
Personally I would prefer to have no alien deer species here, nor boar for that matter, unfortunately it is too late to eradicate these foreign deer.

These introductions are or can be at a cost to our native species.

Roe and Muntjac compete for food especially in winter, muntjac seem to be the more aggressive and the roe population suffers
As every stalker knows or at least should know, any given area of ground will have a maximum number of animals it can support, that number will depend on several factors food available , there is usually no shortage of summer feeding its the availability of winter feed thats important as far as population is concerned.
Shelter is also important as is the amount of disturbance all these things play apart in the amount of animals a certain area can hold.

So lets for arguments sake say your area could hold a 100 Roe and with good management you are operating at or close to full capacity, now the same ground could hold 200 Muntjac but not as well as 100 Roe for every two Muntjac on the ground you can hold one less Roe, that is from the habitat point of view add in the fact that two species don't appear very tolerant of each other the ratio of Roe to Muntjac is probably less as muntjac numbers rise.



Sika hybridise with Red deer and nowhere on the Scottish mainland can Reds now be guaranteed to be pure, so much has the gene pool been influenced by this alien species.

Only on some Hebridean islands can Red deer be guaranteed 100% pure and for that reason it is highly illegal to introduce deer to off shore islands, in fact there are penalty's for introducing any non indigenous species to these islands not only deer.

If you listen to our European neighbours most will tell you , of the detrimental effect Boar have on the roe population in their areas , a few years ago it might have been possible to eradicate them here but now they have become established in certain areas and hunters campaigning for close seasons, and encouraging their numbers to grow, its unlikely we will ever be rid of them.

So yes these species are here and here to say, which will please some just be prepared to pay the price and hope that the price is not to high.
 

Spix

Well-Known Member
A great looming battle we have ahead is to try and control the spread of Mårdhund (racoon dogs) That are spreading into Sweden from Finland.
Our Ground nesting bird life and small game is at great threat from these animals. I'me sure there are some idiots out there who think it would be a good idea to have them to provide a bit of sport for them and there dogs.

There was an unconfirmed sighting of a Racoon dog in Cambridgeshire (? I think) a year or so ago. Reported as a 'black' fox the photo clearly showed a Racoon dog, could only have been a released animal, whether deliberate or accidental.
 

Spix

Well-Known Member
But would a botanist feel the same way as a hunter?

Many involved in shooting miss this crucial point entirely ; landowners may be more concerned for the general ecology of their land than they are for our shooting.
 

Spix

Well-Known Member
unfortunately it is too late to eradicate these foreign deer

Is it ?

I'm not inclined to buy the fallacy perpetuated by the publicly funded charity-social worker types who prefer to tell everyone what to think and want the whole world painted grey, as in grey squirrel grey, and the feeble mealy-mouthed public pronoucements of their celeb agit-prop gnomes.

I completely understand the argument. It may be difficult, very difficult but I'd prefer not to say that it can't be done ! Remember the passenger pigeon ? :stir:
 
Leica Amplus 6
Top