Ballistic tip brews

[monynut]

l have followed the ballistic tip v’s partition thread with some interest, l have been thinking of using BT.s for a while now through my .243, l use it on roe & munties but also use it for fox control so l am looking for a round that will do the job on all but especially for long range fox work as we seem to have more than our far share of lamp shy foxes here.
l have always been sceptical about BT’s but my experience with them is very limited the one time l saw a deer taken (roe) the heart was completely removed at the shot (it actually lay on the ground where the beast was standing at the shot) and it still ran 80 yds nothing unusual in that l know but as the original author said “quote” I'm convinced that I would have had a long night tracking a wounded deer if it weren't for the choice of bullet. I'm not saying that it's the choice of crap shots! I'm conservative with my choice of shots, so am usually able to achieve good shot placement. But the tips do provide that extra 'insurance' which we could all do with from time to time… it does give the impression they drop on the spot and we all now that that is not always the case also regarding meat damage l can except a destroyed shoulder there is not much to worry about on a roe or a muntie or even loosing meat due to the spillage of stomach contents if it was down to pilot error but what l find hard is to except is meat loss due to the bullet breaking up and rupturing the gut,l know that it happens even with SSP’s its happened to me more than once.
l can understand the merits of BT’s so l suppose l am asking probably not to convince me but to suggest what missile to use and brews to push it.
l am not a complete novice l have been stalking a few years and also homeloading a few but there are still grey areas and the use of BT’s is one of them all l am trying to do is skip out the working up and experimenting bit and tap into the wealth of experience and knowledge there is on here.
Cheers guys.

 

[Thar]

There is a lot of bull talked about Ballistic tips, if you look at the manufactures specifications you will see there is little difference between it and the soft pointed bullet, all they have done is stuck a small piece of plastic on the end. Cut one in ½ and have a look yourself then cut a soft point in half to compare it with.

The primary component which dictates bullet expansion is the thickness of the copper jacket, as soft point and BT bullets designed for use on medium game (Deer) not varmint bullets, use the same thickness jackets so they will expand in a similar manner. The bullet manufacturers claim the BT gives a more constant expansion at different velocities whether is this the case I can not say, but the BT do stop the nose of the bullet getting damaged when in the magazine and in general I have found them more accurate in my rifles than soft points, the last advantage of the Ballistic tip is the better ballistic co-efficient these bullets have over the normal soft points, but to be fair at the range that most deer are taken at it would not make that much difference to the bullet drop.

Thar

 

[EMcC]

I have been using Hornady 87grn hpt Bt in .243 for the last twenty five years or more for Fox and Roe and found them 'as good as any other'.
I have tried alsorts of others and not found a bad round but always come back to the 87grn bullet as it also works and is more readily available and cheaper than most and does the same job as any other I have tried.
I push it with a load of 40grns of H380 lit by a Fed Mag primer and seated to fit the magazine ! it has worked for me in so many different makes of rifle and various barrel lengths, although I am more settled now and use Remmy 700 Bdl hvy barrel chopped to 20" and a bog standard Bdl Sporter.
I did see a chap shoot a Roe once, his aim point was 'quartering thro the shoulder' should have been OK but it hit the animal and a great big chunk splashed off of the animal and I then shot it. When we looked at it, the bullet had made a very big surface wound, not even penetrating the chest. The range was only about eighty yards but it turned out he was using 95 grn Ballistic tips. He had never had such a thing happen in his long shooting experience and neither had I so I am not in a position to 'slag off or otherwise' the use of BTs, all I can say is, 87grns have done the job to my satisfaction every time.

 

[Chops]

Monynut,

I have tried a number of different rounds through my rifles over the years; everytime coming back to ballistic tips for my 243. They have proven very effective on roe and fallow, very accurate and very good on charlie too!

I do not use them in my 308 as I have found that partition rounds are ideal for that rifle purpose... ie shots under 200mtrs on sika and red.

Generally speaking all my roe are shot around 150 to 200mtr mark, but I do push my charlie shots out to 300+ on occation; in this sitution BT's have come into their own.

I use 80g noslers with 38g of varget, set 10 thou off the lands and lit with a federal primer. I also moly coat them. This brew pushed through my (now somewhat modified) sako gives me a consistant 0.4" group at 100mtr.

 

[325wsm]

6mm Nosler Ballistic Tip for Varmint are available in 55gn, 70gn, 80gn and should NOT be used on deer as they expand too quickly. In fact one could say it is illegal to use them on deer as they do NOT expand in a controlled manner as required by legislation.

The 90gn and 95gn are Hunting Ballistic Tips and ARE suitable for deer.

This difference is applicable to other calibres as well and esp relevant in the 22cf area.

For the sake of the deer and your licence do use the correct bullet.

 

[Bagpuss]

6mm Nosler Ballistic Tip for Varmint are available in 55gn, 70gn, 80gn and should NOT be used on deer as they expand too quickly. In fact one could say it is illegal to use them on deer as they do NOT expand in a controlled manner as required by legislation.

The 90gn and 95gn are Hunting Ballistic Tips and ARE suitable for deer.

This difference is applicable to other calibres as well and esp relevant in the 22cf area.

For the sake of the deer and your licence do use the correct bullet.

Ditto

 

[Chops]

325wsm... I believe that the law states "...in a predictable manner...", not controlled... making the lighter rounds with their thinner copper jackets perfectly legal as they do expand predictably (if somewhat violently)

To say that the an 80g BT Nosler is not suitable for deer control is nonsense. I have used them for a great many years without failure, and will continue to do so. They have proven accurate and reliable.

I know of at least 2 professional deer managers (one of which heads up courses for the BDS) who use 70g Noslers... he featured in an article in the shooting times week before last. He uses them on fallow (although I would have my personal concerns about that) and says they have never failed him either.

Roe are a light skinned deer, whose body density lends itself to the use of lighter rounds. As the use of 22cf rounds in Scotland has proven. If the lighter round should not be used, then what would one put through 22cf for roe in Scotland? They are all varmint heads... and Scottish law is the same as the English and Welsh when it states that ammunition must expand in a predictable manner.

Although I am aware that Nosler and others state that there rounds are not suitable, I can safely say that the evidence that I have seen has shown to me that they are perfectly adequate for the job on Roe. Scotland is a case in point.

 

[325wsm]

A 22 rimfire will easily kill deer but it is not legal to use it.

I am sorry if I offend you but I feel quite strongly that if it is illegal to use a particular bullet why do so when there are plenty of acceptable types/makes available.

There are enough problems in our world of shooting without supposedly legitimate shooters making life more difficult for the rest of us as well as themselves by defying both the law and the standards the rest of us find quite acceptable.

As far as I am concerned I think you need to look again at what is available for both the 22CF and any other calibres you use and choose the appropriate bullets.

 

[Thar]

Sako 55gn Gameheads for one in 22cf

Thar

 

[Chops]

325wsm... you had not caused no offence, but...

My confusion comes from the fact that you believe it illegal to use a lighter head. I can see no legal reason not to use them... they expand in a predicable manner, that is all the law states. An 80g head carries enough energy (>1700ftlbs), and 243 is a legal calibre.

An 80g Nosler ballistic tip round IS legal in every aspect.

I am in no way breaking the law. I would suggest that you read the law before you try to quote it. The law definition of an expanding round is:
"... designed to expand in a predicable manner."

An 80g Nosler BT does exactly this.

Plus I am a legitimate shooter... there is no supposedly about it!!!!!!! I have stalked for over 10 years and have been shooting since I was a child. In that time have only had one 'bad' shot... which left the beast dead but also with a burst stomach.

The standards you seem to be applying appear to be your own. As per the previous post I know of many professional deer managers who are highly respected members of the shooting community, who shoot a similar type of round to me. Their standards are the same as all the people who I shoot with and have shot with.

Disciplined safe shots who have an understanding of what they are doing and how they are doing it. We interact as a community to share knowledge and experience; not just decide to set our standards upon others because we think we are right.

I would strongly recommend before you go about cutting into other people you guard your words... your views, I believe are your views, and although I may not agree with them it does not make them wrong.

This could have been a good debate, with good information shared... it is a shame that your only method to discuss a point is a personal attack.

 

[325wsm]

I am only stating fact.

The 80gn is NOT a hunting bullet and should not be used for that purpose - the jacket is too fragile and is a completely different 'build' to the two heavier weights which are suitable for Deer.

I am not 'having a go' at you per se but at all those folk that think the law doesnt apply to them in respect of target/ varmint/ hunting bullets. I appreciate it is on occasions due to ignorance but more often down to arrogance and when that occurs on my patch because someone was using Berger target bullets I do feel rather strongly.