Ballistic tips v's partition

#1
I've seen a couple of comments elsewhere on this forum about ballisitic tips.

I've been using them for a couple of years and like other forum users - will never go back to anything else for the stalking I do which is predominantly fallow and roe.

Last weekend as the light was fading fast, I followed a walking roe doe through the scope. It eventaully stopped and I took the shot. I'm ashamed to say that it was too far back and was really a gut shot. However she went straight over with the bullet tearing large holes in the liver.

I'm convinced that I would have had a long night tracking a wounded deer if it weren't for the choice of bullet. I'm not saying that it's the choice of crap shots! I'm conservative with my choice of shots, so am usually able to acheive good shot placement. But the tips do provide that extra 'insurance' which we could all do with from time to time...
 

Jason

Well-Known Member
#2
I'd be interested to hear other memebr of the forums opinions on ballistic tips.

I'm very cautious about there use as I've a deer shot with them were the've been shot in the chest (classic heart shot) just behind the front leg and exited throught the gut after bouncing around in the chest cavity. Is this a one off?
 

remmy7

Well-Known Member
#3
In response to Jasons observations regarding the correct bullet placement but subsequent internal damage at locations to the rear of the diaphram. I too have witnessed this effect on a number of occasions with the ballistic tips or the ballistic silvertips in the winchester supreme range. Furthermore on a few of these occasions there has what appeared to be a very small additional exit wound at the correct location on the carcass and to date I have assumed that this has been caused by the Balistic tip itself continuing along the correct path whilst the the remainder and obviously bulk of the head has veered of path and caused the damage described. Dont know if these apparently observed terminal ballistics are even possible but I am certainly keeping an eye on all of my own results.

Remmy7.
 

Chops

Well-Known Member
#5
I have been using been using 90gr Nosler ballistic tips in my 243 for a while. I have found them really good, provided the shot is a disciplined one! There is a lot less room for error with them.

I have only had one nasty with them and that was, as mentioned above, from an unpleasent deflection in the chest cavity.

Very accurate though!
 

john.d.m

Well-Known Member
#6
what about meat damage with ballistic tips?
My choice is a good quality heavy expanding round.
180 grn soft point in 30-06,I use it for everything and it works with minimal damage.
I may be bit old fashioned but I prefer heavy lump of lead, not a whiz bang fast and furious round,except for my 22-250 in which I use 40 grn hollow points,but then again I not worried about meat damage in foxes
 

Chops

Well-Known Member
#7
The only time I had an issue with meat damage was an indirect one... the bullet path distorted inside the chest cavity and ended up entering the stomach... I had to cut away a lot of the meat that was affected by the stomach contents.

It has not put me off using ballistic tips, I just learnt to be more disciplined with my shots. ;)
 
#8
Ballistic tips every time for me (70 gr Noslers in my .243) , so much safer than a partition round only a tiny piece of jacket exits even a small roe, carcass damage ?, yes more than a soft nose, but to transfer the maximum amount of energy to the animal and therefore give the most humane kill the bulk of the round has to stay within the body of the target. I would rather have slightly more carcass damage but a cleaner kill.
As for Remmys comments I have too seen that effect, the exit hole is caused by the base of the round which is just an empty copper shell having allready shed its contents throughout the chest cavity. These small fragments have a shotgun blast like affect over the heart and lungs and blood pressure loss is massive and immediate.
We do a lot of downland stalking and longer distances are the norm, a lighter faster bullet gives a wide range with minimal adjustment needed from 50 to 250 yards.
 

devilishdave

Well-Known Member
#9
BT

Jason said:
I'd be interested to hear other memebr of the forums opinions on ballistic tips.

I'm very cautious about there use as I've a deer shot with them were the've been shot in the chest (classic heart shot) just behind the front leg and exited throught the gut after bouncing around in the chest cavity. Is this a one off?
I had that hapen to a Muntjack hit squre on at 20m with a 95 grain Nosler. It droped on the spot. I guess it must have been defelcted by the ribs as it went in.

Dave
 
B

Bambi Basher

Guest
#10
Jason said:
I'd be interested to hear other memebr of the forums opinions on ballistic tips.

I'm very cautious about there use as I've a deer shot with them were the've been shot in the chest (classic heart shot) just behind the front leg and exited throught the gut after bouncing around in the chest cavity. Is this a one off?
Don't blame your ballistic tips I have known this happen with soft points also.

The ballistic tip bullet is constructed the same as a soft point and then a plastic tip is bonded on top it is not that different from a soft point.

They do give better accuracy and a better ballistic coficent than a hollow point or soft point.

I use them and do rate them.

B-B
 
#11
If you drive BT's to quick they will cause excessive damage, whether it hits bone or flesh. Drive them at moderate speeds and they work fine.

Ive been using them for years in all rifles and can honestly say they are a good bullet, if not a bit more money than say the SST's.



Cal
 
#12
Ballistic Tips

I have to say that I agree with John d m, my preference would be good quality heavy round nose bullets. I have used both factory 173 grn rnd RWS and homeloads in my 7 x 64 Hyem for more years than I care to remember, very accurate and anything from muntjac to plains game in africa and even wild boar. I am not recommending 7mm as a Africa choice I would always opt for something heavier, but it will do the job at a push. It will deliver good "knock down and exit wound channel, which can be vital in African game they don't just fall over like UK species. This is why al the PH's recommend a well constructed bullets in heavy calibre that will exit, placement and penetration being the key.
Finally, having seen the results of Roe hit through the shoulder with a ballistic tips and a bit tongue in check,if I need the fragmentation of a balistic tip, I think I would opt for a grenade.
 

325wsm

Well-Known Member
#13
Ballistic tip should be confined to less than 3600fps and no-one should be using Varmint bullets on deer.

55, 70 and 80 grain Ballistic Tips in 243 cal (6mm) are NOT suitable for deer of any species.

90 and 95 grain bullets are Hunting and are suitable
 
S

swampy

Guest
#14
ballistic tips

325wsm is dead right.

ballistic tips come in 2 varieties hunting and varminting. the hunting ones are heavier, have thicker walled and are designed for swift and controlled expansion.
the varminting ones are thin walled and aer designed for instant almost explosive expansion.

It is essential we choose the right one and not use the varminting bullet on deer.

I use soft point spitzers 100 gr in 243 and 150 gr in 30-06. both work well but the .30 is my preferred rifle most of the time. I don't get much meat dammage and they are normally dead on the spot.

swampy
 

Chops

Well-Known Member
#15
55, 70 and 80 grain Ballistic Tips in 243 cal (6mm) are NOT suitable for deer of any species.

Interesting but I am not so sure that this is correct. I (like many sheep) did my DMQ1 in Hampshire recently, the chap that headed the course up used 70g ballistic tips through RPA for Roe and Fallow. He certainly knew his stuff and as a professional deer manager; promoting the virtues of RPA, Winchester 243 as a calibre and the use of 70g to 80g ballistic tip noslers.

I use 80g and Ballistic Tips for Roe (have done for years), I reload them to push out around 3250fps and had only once had a problem - the beast was dead but a bone deflection into the gut made a lot of the meat unsalvageable.

I would not use them on Sika, Red or Fallow as I would choose my bigger rifle (308). I do not think that they are wrong for use on Roe, CWD or Munties
 

325wsm

Well-Known Member
#16
Chops said:
55, 70 and 80 grain Ballistic Tips in 243 cal (6mm) are NOT suitable for deer of any species.

Interesting but I am not so sure that this is correct. I (like many sheep) did my DMQ1 in Hampshire recently, the chap that headed the course up used 70g ballistic tips through RPA for Roe and Fallow. He certainly knew his stuff and as a professional deer manager; promoting the virtues of RPA, Winchester 243 as a calibre and the use of 70g to 80g ballistic tip noslers.

I use 80g and Ballistic Tips for Roe (have done for years), I reload them to push out around 3250fps and had only once had a problem - the beast was dead but a bone deflection into the gut made a lot of the meat unsalvageable.

I would not use them on Sika, Red or Fallow as I would choose my bigger rifle (308). I do not think that they are wrong for use on Roe, CWD or Munties
It is not me that is telling you that you are wrong but Nosler themselves. There is a big difference between hunting and varmint bullets in the B/tips and they should NOT be interchanged.

We have had folk on the forums swearing by fragile heads on various occasions (usually target) but they are nearly always neither suitable nor advised and may in some instances be illegal in this country.
 

Chops

Well-Known Member
#17
325wsm,

I fully accept the point thhat Nosler say they are designed for Varmiting, but I cannot see how, on a roe, they would be unsafe?

OK - if I threw them out at 3000fps then I would be concerned about breakup... at the extremes there are always problems.

The heads are designed to expand in a controlled fashion, making them legal. They are suited to the job of delivering as much energy into the target as possible causing massive hydrostatic shock and extensive blood loss.

Forgive me but if the heads do the above, why not use them? Experience tells me that work...

Please tell me if I am missing something....

Chops
 

308boy

Well-Known Member
#18
Varmint BT's

I have used 55 GN Nosler BT's on roe deer recently (Via 22-250). Both deer dropped on the spot. (and yes it is legal up here)

Meat damage on a roe, who reallly cares?? Mine are for my own consumption as the game dealer pays a pittance.

Buck no 1 got it in the gearbox and the bullet travelled upwards and clipped the spine. (hence it dropped dead), the latter was around 170m and got its heart/lungs destroyed.

both cleaned out fine and tasted fine.

Experience and trail and error should lead to conclusions. not presumption or conjecture based on marketing and hearsay.

308 :evil:
 

325wsm

Well-Known Member
#19
Actually it is 'LESS' legal in Scotland than in England if there can be any differentiation in the wording of the various sections of the two sets of relevant laws.

By breaking the law in this way you are doing a disservice to the shooting community as a whole.
 

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