Barnes TSX performance

takbok

Well-Known Member
Nice looking bullet. I've never recovered a bullet from a carcass with my .270.

I've tried the 110gr TSX's and they were very accurate but never hunted with them.
 

Shootgun

Well-Known Member
Nice looking bullet. I've never recovered a bullet from a carcass with my .270.

I've tried the 110gr TSX's and they were very accurate but never hunted with them.
That’s the second ever recovered in over 5 years of exclusive use.
1st one was a 110 grains TTSX
 

minikeeper

Well-Known Member
Or you could say that nearly all bullets commonly used to shoot deer have sufficient penetration, and all you are getting is a reduction in lethality if you’re shot placement isn’t perfect?
 

Edinburgh Rifles

Well-Known Member
What is so special about near 100% weight retention?
you are not eating metal....
or throwing away metal filled waste meat

Looks like its barely made 2x calibre diameter @Shootgun.
Its not designed to

monolithics kill among other ways by maintaining higher velocities through the carcase and creating a wider cavitation bubble destrying internal organs with less meat damage.
Its unusal to not get an exit with a monolithic which does not lose mass and slow down as quickly as a lead round shedding weight
 

Jelen

Well-Known Member
Looks like its barely made 2x calibre diameter @Shootgun.
And then ricoched into who knows where when you're on frozen flinty ground, or a granite boulder strewn hillside? we're not in California - yet - so why?
I'd always much rather lose a shoulder of venison than have a possibility of 100gr of solid copper going "Wheeeeee" in a totally unpredictable direction.
 

Edinburgh Rifles

Well-Known Member
Any bullet will ricochet when fired into rock.....
Several studies done on multiple bullet designs into the same substrate backstop produced no significant increase in ricochet using monolithic bullets
The Israeli military did one, the NRA did another

Stop blaming the bullets if you shoot rocks

California has nothing to do with it

There is a reason we banned lead in pipes, paint, pencils, petrol etc etc....
Yet we want to argue we cant find a better material to put venison into the food chain?


The continued use of lead in game shooting whether with rifle or shotgun will lead to the restriction and destruction of the shooting we all enjoy.
Its already happening.
To ignore the clear pattern of behaviour of not only the groups whocampaign against our activities, the supermarkets and game handling establishments, but also government bodies that ultimately influence law is extremely niave.

Continually perpetuating the barstool myths and folklore around the apparent increased ricochet risk, inaccuracy, barrel fouling and poor terminal effect of monlithics etc etc is unhelpful and arguably damaging to our sport, hobbies, pastimes and businesses.

Choose the monolithics for your application like you would with any other bullet
The do work
The are not worse for your barrel fouling
They don't ricochet if you don't shoot rocks
They are readily available in numerous brands, many calibres and weights

Question is why aren't we all using them or at least looking towards using them?
 

dodgyknees

Well-Known Member
Question is why aren't we all using them or at least looking towards using them?
Because we're stubborn, one eyed, dyed-in-the-wool, irrational, habitual, cynical, doubtful, obstinate, pig-headed, obdurate... and downright bloody-minded.

And that's on a good day.

I'm slowly coming round to the idea of monolithics. Very slowly. Once bitten, twice shy. And only in certain, very specific applications. In the meantime, the easiest way to avoid inadvertent ingestion of lead is to not eat the meat around the wounding, or shoot the deer in the head. There, problem solved.

There are so many things that are "bad" for us in this life, eh. The coffee I'm drinking now raises my blood pressure, on top of the salt I added to my lethal cholesterol filled eggs at breakfast. The beer I'll drink tonight rots my liver and makes me fat, the red meat I'll eat after the beer gives me bowel cancer. The sun is out and that will give me melanoma, and my cattles' burps will raise methane levels and doubtless that means an extra dangerous cyclone is round the corner. Talking of which, who knows how many drunk and stoned drivers I'll encounter on the road this afternoon.

And then Mt Ruapehu will violently erupt and I'll be buried Pompeii style in a pyroclastic flow. Legislate against that!
 

dodgyknees

Well-Known Member
I will just add to the above, to say that the hunter I probably admire the most here in NZ, a 70 something veteran who's still out there doin' it, he's switched to monolithics (for the most part). That involved some changes to his rifle collection to make them work to his satisfaction, specifically, speeding everything up 10-15% or more, and dropping rifles that didn't have the required oommppff at the ranges we hunt.

E.g. the .308 has gone, and a .270WSM is in its place.

The fails he has experienced have, in probably all cases? been a function of impacts too far behind the shoulder. He has the best finding dog I've ever known, so the runners are generally found. He's not a proper "long range" hunter so shots much past 400m aren't taken. The low BC problem with many monolithic designs, and the proven low to zero expansion problems below ~2200fps preclude their use in longer range hunting.

So yes, the anti-monolithic sentiment, mine included in the past, is probably largely irrational in the face of the latest designs and some fairly irrefutable evidence now.

Shot placement. High velocity. Short to medium ranges. That'll work.
 

Edinburgh Rifles

Well-Known Member
the easiest way to avoid inadvertent ingestion of lead is to not eat the meat around the wounding, or shoot the deer in the head. There, problem solved.
sadly the badgers, foxes, corvids and raptors don't read the papers on the persistence of lead when ingested...

specifically, speeding everything up 10-15% or more,

The low BC problem with many monolithic designs, and the proven low to zero expansion problems below ~2200fps preclude their use in longer range hunting.
increased velocity through hot loads or dropping a weight class was the response from most manufacturers of monolithics that were demonstrating poor terminal effect and expansion characteristics at range or lower terminal velocities.
This was on the whole entirely down to HIGH BC charateristics.

arguably very few of the monolithics have low BC, far from it, many of them are very high BC which is not required

Far too many hunting bullets are being designed for shooting 3-4x the range than 90% of hunters shoot.

Designed to expand aggressively at range and people wonder why they need a dustpan and brush when they shoot a roe deer at 80yds

Boat tail - proven to not be relevant inside 300m
High calibre radius, Secant and Tangent ogive - irrelevant if you are not shooting beyond 300m, arguably they take a lot further to stabilise and settle down due to short bearing surface and extreme length vs weight.
Ballistic Tips - DO NOT AID EXPANSION! They are there to allow a uniform tip and increase the BC figures which aid marketing!!
Pull the tips on a BT bullet and then shoot them if you want to see aggressive expansion.
Wide Meplat and deep Hollow points under the BT aid expansion

Some of the most effective bullets on game have round nose or spitzer profiles with no boat tail.
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
Because we're stubborn, one eyed, dyed-in-the-wool, irrational, habitual, cynical, doubtful, obstinate, pig-headed, obdurate... and downright bloody-minded.

And that's on a good day.
Reckon that has much to do with it.

Along the "no change is good but some is inevitable" line. We shooters should be taking the lead (sorry) by choosing non toxic ammunition and gaining the moral high ground before having the inevitable ban imposed from above.

Why fight science, commercial and public opinion when we could lead (sorry again) the debate instead of having to play catch up.

Yes, we can cut out and throw away perfectly good meat which we have contaminated with lead as far as our own food goes...but we are still leaving the leaded gralloch for carrion eaters.

Alan

p.s. Ah wrote this last night and forgot to post it...now see @Edinburgh Rifles has covered some of the same ground...
 

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
So yes, the anti-monolithic sentiment, mine included in the past, is probably largely irrational in the face of the latest designs and some fairly irrefutable evidence now.
Doesn't have to be monolithic to be non-toxic of course...Brenneke and RWS for instance make frangible bullets with tin cores...they deal with the toxicity of the gralloch...but I just don't fancy the metal shards of any type in my food...

Alan
 

1894

Well-Known Member
I'd happily use monos if they could give the performance I like which is:-

1. Same bullet for sporting rifle/LR practice and stalking for repeatable practice with the equipment I use in the field ie economical price and allowed (monos not allowed at Bisley)

2. Very good BC

3. Reliable expansion at longer range

4. Very good expansion at normal range

5. Penetration sufficient to exit on behind shoulder perfect broadside but not on quartering/shoulder shots ie sufficient but not excessive.

These attributes have served me very well over time. I really don't care what material gives me that performance, it just so happens monos don't (yet).
 

Top