Barrel tuners I mean probably almost completely useless

New Avon Arms
Dogtra U.K. said:
I’ve just bought an MBE Ballistic Solutions SL5 Tuner / Moderator. At the price he is currently doing them at, it is worth a punt from the evidence I have seen.

Plus, Mikes engineering is simply superb and what you would expect from an engineer with a background of building racing car engines.

Click to expand...
That looks a good deal.Saying out of stock now though.
Is it just the standard sl5i or has it done away with any baffles/effectiveness?
 
Hi,
He has them in stock. He just puts out of stock to stop people clicking and buying with it being a licensed part.

He hasn’t removed baffles. He has removed the threaded section and machined / bonded in the coupler for the tuner.

I’ve not started testing yet as he is ceracoating it for me. It’s going on my 6mm Creed.
 
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Contributory factors affecting tune

Barrel profile

Barrel length

Composition of barrel

Cartridge, powder capacity, bullet weight

Tuner weight

Tuner adjustment thread pitch


In short -

Larger diameter short barrels are more difficult / less receptive to tuning

Most tuners are manufactured towards the larger diameter - tactical, F Class Benchrest type profile barrels

Sporter weight barrels are not really catered for with the exception of the BOSS system which worked well (way back then )

Most tuners I’m aware of have 1 mm pitch threads with .5 tenth increment (one full revolution would provide 20 increments of adjustment ) - which is more than adequate

Plenty of options in terms of what to buy from UK sources ;

Aaron Hipp Adaptive Tuner Solution
EC Tuner
Ezell
MB Engineering (UK manufactured and just released)

Sure there are others that I’ve forgotten about
 
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nicklm said:
I installed a starik tuner on my Bleiker .22 competition rifle, having batch tested with Lapua center X and the groups were bad ( competition grade bad) with a lot of vertical stringing. As the barrel had only done 25k should have been a lot better.
Went away ordered a tuner and within an hour on the range , rifle clamped into a recoiling rig massively reduced the group size.
This takes paitence and a fair bit of ammo.
There were two nodes of improved group size. Chose the smallest and fine tuned on that.

Move forward two years re tested with RWS R50 10 batches of ammo all groups under 13mm and all very round with no vertical strings, smallest group 12.2mm

Rifle shoots incredibly well out the shoulder

So In answer do barrel tunners work, most definitely on rimfires.

Nick
Click to expand...
I was at a .22 shoulder to shoulder match the other evening and two of the leading lights use these starikshooting.com | Target shooting solutions One guy regularly shoots possibles.
The recurring comment on all these devices is that top shots with top rifles and top ammunition can make use of them. For the rest of us, they are a distraction from improving our skills.
Regards
JCS
 
jcampbellsmith said:
I was at a .22 shoulder to shoulder match the other evening and two of the leading lights use these starikshooting.com | Target shooting solutions One guy regularly shoots possibles.
The recurring comment on all these devices is that top shots with top rifles and top ammunition can make use of them. For the rest of us, they are a distraction from improving our skills.
Regards
JCS
Click to expand...


There you go - a brand I was unaware of 👍🏻

Quite a salient point in this John - many folk will buy “the best” kit investing heavily but balk at the price of training that may assist them to improve their skills and subsequent enjoyment of using their chosen “toys”

Something to think about when buying or saving for the latest “whizzbang”

Could I buy some training instead ,,,,,
 
Utectok said:
So maybe I was right !? Barrel tuners I mean probably almost completely useless???

Click to expand...

I had a Browning A bolt with the BOSS system in the late 80's, possibly early 90's, in 30-06, you could literally turn a 1" group to a 4" group and back to a 1/2" group by adjusting the muzzle brake in about 16-20 or so clicks in either direction, without any shadow of a doubt it worked.
Why did I get rid of this wonderful rifle?
Because it was a brake and bloody uncomfortably loud to shoot on, behind, or to the side of the rifle.
 
Starts thread with opinion that they are virtually useless ?

But you said in your original post you’ve never used one !

I believe if I’m reading your post right you don’t think they shoot enough rounds / groups to prove the point …

Why not go buy one shoot a sh1t ton of groups with and without it on ?

Then let us know if your original thoughts still the same ?


Paul
 
sauer said:
Starts thread with opinion that they are virtually useless ?

But you said in your original post you’ve never used one !

I believe if I’m reading your post right you don’t think they shoot enough rounds / groups to prove the point …

Why not go buy one shoot a sh1t ton of groups with and without it on ?

Then let us know if your original thoughts still the same ?


Paul
Click to expand...
Watch the video mate someone else has shot loads of shot and proved it not sure I need or want to?
 
Well... I would not disagree with anything said on that video. Hanging a weight on the barrel will affect something, be-it point of aim or something. But these tuners which are adjustable to one thou' increments - don't waste your money. But then I said that in post #10 of this thread.

One thing I would disagree with, on reflection, is the expectation that a tuner would somehow reduce the dispersion of the group due to factors other than barrel movement while the bullet is in the barrel. There was a lot of talk in the video where they set this up as a proposal and then demolished it in simulation and in actual firing. I never even considered that as a viable option.

For those interested, I have an on-line computer model for barrel vibrations where you can try different barrel profiles and lengths and even simulate a weight on the end of the barrel and see what difference it makes to the barrel vibrations. See https://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articles/rimfire_accuracy/barrel_vibrations.htm

My website does not have SSL encryption so your browser may tell you the site is unsafe. Just tell your browser to go ahead and load the site. It is safe.
 
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If people have an interest in precision shooting at long range, Mark and Sam in Australia have developed a straightforward and basic approach that delivers sensational accuracy at more than a mile. They do use muzzle brakes but don't use barrel tuners. In consequence one would expect them to have to do extra load development but it's the opposite as they hardly do any load development at all. They seat almost all bullets to 75thou jump then cram as much powder as they can into the cartridge case before pressure signs (their loads are usually compressed loads). Then they go out shooting and set up the rifle, bipod, stock etc so it has smooth linear recoil and that's all. It's well worth studying their video archive as they explain their rationale for everything in depth: https://www.youtube.com/@markandsamafterwork
 
HandB said:
If people have an interest in precision shooting at long range, Mark and Sam in Australia have developed a straightforward and basic approach that delivers sensational accuracy at more than a mile. They do use muzzle brakes but don't use barrel tuners. In consequence one would expect them to have to do extra load development but it's the opposite as they hardly do any load development at all. They seat almost all bullets to 75thou jump then cram as much powder as they can into the cartridge case before pressure signs (their loads are usually compressed loads). Then they go out shooting and set up the rifle, bipod, stock etc so it has smooth linear recoil and that's all. It's well worth studying their video archive as they explain their rationale for everything in depth: https://www.youtube.com/@markandsamafterwork
Click to expand...
Right on cue, Mark has just uploaded a video explaining his no-tuner/minimal load development philosophy:
 
I might be wrong here but you never see Mark and Sam shoot groups. Also I know it is a sweeping statement but walking a round into a big target at range is not that difficult (I know, I know) It is the repeatability that counts.
 
aris said:
This just popped up on my feed



It was referring to this

Click to expand...

I know the debate continues what I thought was interesting was the ES difference between the two groups I mean how can a tuner affect MV that’s really interesting. Perhaps it can I don’t know
 
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