BASC Training

UK Outfitters

Dickie

Well-Known Member
I have just been on guntrader and in the forum there is a dit about BASC selling us out with more training courses what do members here think I found it strange that No1 module is rifle and progress to lamping dangerous game then the last module is sporting air rifle should this not be no1?
your thoughts
Cheers
Dickie
 

1shot1kill

Well-Known Member
looks like to me that they need some funds for there christmas ball, rather whot whot!!!
l got done by them because i never got my nscc changed over to a dmq one in time as i was over seas, l tried telling them this but the replie was, well if you have been away then you dont know the new regs ect....
So a bloke sat on his arse doing no stalking in the mean time who happened to make the date for a dmq switch over gets it!!!
No justice. :evil:
 

scotsgun

Well-Known Member
BASC are really getting up my nose at the moment. I'm fed up paying subs to clubs supposedly representing us yet never seem tired of dipping into my wallet.

These new training courses are intended solely to inflate their bank balance and they'll gladly cozy up to any numpty organisation or govt office to make them compulsory for new FAC applications, etc.

It's only a matter of time before the forestry commision, etc start asking for completion of these courses or others.

No doubt some bright spark thought up these courses to eleviate the dropping subs collections due to the drove of people walking away to join Countrside Alliance, Scottish Gamekeepers, etc. It'll soon go the way of the NRA - elitist ****s completely devoid of reality and disconnected with the practices and concerns of modern UK frearms users.
 

nodoe

New Member
[My thoughts on BASC are they are only providing what their membership ask them for.Not everyone is lucky enough to know someone or somewhere to stalk or use a rifle and by doing one of these courses it does show a commitment to getting involved.For my part I have found them to be very helpfull,you can only speak as you find.[/b][/u]
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
I can see the sense to a certain extent in having DSC1, 2 I am not so sure about, its a bit of a farce really.

It does appear to be a bit of a money making jolly all these exams and courses. Finally I would add that the people that run these courses; what gives them the authority to tell others who are possibly far more experienced and knowledgable how to operate and pass the course, who passed them I wonder ? :rolleyes:
 

Dickie

Well-Known Member
Malc
Exactly and if we have the DSC1 what more is needed?
also if the modules have to be done in order who is going to do air rifle after dangerous game other than people with loads of spare cash who collect certificates!
plod must be rubbing their hands at more hoops for us to jump through put in place by our own people!!
Dickie
 

dieseldan

Well-Known Member
Level 2

DMQ level 2 is a pile of pish.

As the rules stand you can pay to go and shoot 3 deer and pass.

These can be the only 3 deer you have ever shot in your life. How can that pass as competance and experience.

Bull
 

dave 67

Well-Known Member
So does this mean they are going to scrap doing DMQ training??
If not why have a deer stalking module if the standard is lower than
DMQ1 will the FC accept this new module?, why is basic rifle and
advanced rifle manditory how basic is basic "If on pulling the trigger you get a sharp pain in your shoulder try turning the rifle round"How advanced is advanced not looking to get into 1000yrd shooting with
MOA/ windage calculations and home loading at the moment.
This just puts more obsticals in the way of people like myself
trying to start to go down the road of deer stalking, it will cost enough
to pay to stalk get FAC buy rifle/scope ammo gunsafe And now they are coming up with a course that will cost 3x£210 to get the minimum, if the
FC/land owners start to demand.
BASC will end up cutting their own throats in the search for the almighty $
 

smullery

Well-Known Member
Pick up the telephone and call them and you will find it is nothing to do with the Deer Department.

BASC are merely responding to members requests for access to tuition and training with regard to Sporting Rifle shooting. Covers anything from nervous beginners to WAGS. Aim is to offer what is being asked for within a framework that should carry forward into future voluntary/compulsory requirements forced upon by "Regulatory Authorities".

Those members that are wanting to spend money now on getting/improving skill sets, be they specific or general, currently have a miltitude of choices as to training etc. which may have no credit in the future.

Like it or not BASC is viewed by Whitehall as the prime voice for shooting sports by virtue of size the same as NRA are for competition shooters.

Advanced driver training isn't compulsory but many people want to do it. It is therefore offered.

Stan
 

Jager SA

Well-Known Member
smullery said:
Pick up the telephone and call them and you will find it is nothing to do with the Deer Department.

BASC are merely responding to members requests for access to tuition and training with regard to Sporting Rifle shooting. Covers anything from nervous beginners to WAGS. Aim is to offer what is being asked for within a framework that should carry forward into future voluntary/compulsory requirements forced upon by "Regulatory Authorities".

Those members that are wanting to spend money now on getting/improving skill sets, be they specific or general, currently have a miltitude of choices as to training etc. which may have no credit in the future.

Like it or not BASC is viewed by Whitehall as the prime voice for shooting sports by virtue of size the same as NRA are for competition shooters.

Advanced driver training isn't compulsory but many people want to do it. It is therefore offered.

Stan


There some that need this training it has to be said but the cost of the modules is off the wall. People I come into contact with who stalk are novices and purley recreational, they do it on a budget, but they love what they do

Having yet another course/examination/certificate of competence put forward (At your cost) is good for only those who will make money out of it. It will also be another potential yard stick (Like DSC) for the Police to use against new or even exhisting FAC holders wheather they be stalkers, vermin shooters or game shooters.
I see it as another attempt to reduce private firearms owners...if you dont have these moduals you cant have an FAC because you dont have any experience.

No course will give you experience, it gives a piece of paper that says you are competant even though in some cases that person has never used a firearm prior to the course. Sounds to me a bit like plausable deniability!

Its the same as the DSC 1, overnight there were Deer Stalking experts because they had level 1 and then there were those that sat Level 2 who couldnt tell the difference between a Heart and a Kidney... :lol:

JMO
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
I have had a few Pm's about this and also contact from another site owner who is concerned at BASC's motives.

This is slightly worrying. One only has to look at what happened after the introduction of Level 1 and 2. Although I admit that some benchmark of ability and safety is required, this could lead to further un justified exams being bought into practice that will eventually effect all of us.

Look at what has happened to Level 1 and 2, the Police now use it as a yardstick to ensure you keep your certificate :rolleyes: when many have stalked and managed deer for more years than the examiner, who takes the course :rolleyes:
 

The Mole

Well-Known Member
smullery said:
BASC are merely responding to members requests for access to tuition and training with regard to Sporting Rifle shooting.

I'd love to believe this, but find it difficult. It's a good line to take though when you are creating demand.
 

smullery

Well-Known Member
I only decided that I wanted to take up deer stalking in December 2007. I applied for my FAC and got it in February 2008. In accordance with the Home Office Guidlines I showed need. I was allowed my requested 6.55 x 55 and 9.3 x 62. All down to showing need and conversing with my local FEO (Lincs). Later I found that my needs required somewhat more. A conversation with a different FEO, and a shown need, resulted in my getting another 6.5 x 55 and the ability to acquire and use ammo for my 9.3 x 62 (without reason to shoot anything other than paper in the UK).

Bottom line is that I communicate with the regulatory authority and I get the driving position.

I now have land to shoot on but still choose to pay for time to stalk with stalkers who earn money from this as an income. My choice. Some are members of this forum.

Are they creating a demand?

Stan
 

The Mole

Well-Known Member
As you say, your choice. And clearly you've had an clear run at the perils of gaining an FAC. That's good. But please, despite your good fortune, don't lose sight of the bigger picture - some don't have it so easy.
 

300wsm

Well-Known Member
Training can only be a good thing can it not.

Why should someone who has access to land but no experiance of weapons handling be handed a FAC and be able to go out foxing at night with a lamp with no training whatso ever.

As with DSC 1 & 2 the only ones with something fear are the ones that, can post the post or talk the talk, but do not have a clue how to walk the walk :eek:
 

IanF

Well-Known Member
300WSM

I really feel you may be missing the crucial point here.

No one would suggest there is anything wrong with training - it is a sensible option prior to using firearms.

The problem is 'qualification'.

If you have been successfully stalking for years - why should you now HAVE to buy a qualification to continue your chosen hobby? If you already hold a qualification - why should that suddenly become worthless?

Why should it be mandatory to hold a qualification if there is no statistical benefit to society? We already have less firearms injuries that many countries that DO have mandatory testing!

Rgds Ian :)
 

300wsm

Well-Known Member
Now that I do agree on I was merely looking on it from a new starteds point on view.

Down in you part of the world there has been a guy who has been running these types of courses for years.

It just seems as though there is a theme of if its BASC it must be evil.

Basc have to make money from somewhere to lobby government but has been pointed out many times if you do not like how BASC is being run the go to the AGM stand up and be counted.
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
Re: Level 2

dieseldan said:
DMQ level 2 is a pile of pish.

As the rules stand you can pay to go and shoot 3 deer and pass.

These can be the only 3 deer you have ever shot in your life. How can that pass as competance and experience.

Bull

I really fail to grasp why people look at the Level 2 in this way...To use an analogy, is simply the equivalent of the "Practical" part of modern driving test, with the Level 1 being essentially the equivalent to the "Theory" part.

Does shooting and gralloching three deer demonstrate a huge level of experience? Of course not, but it shows that the person can and has done the basics and actually got his or her hands bloody in the field so to speak...

Of European and American shooting/hunting qualifications that I know of, only the Level 2 includes this degree of practical assessment, which personally I think is good..

Is the system perfect? No, of course not...for example shooting three Muntjac has limited relevance when it comes to a person that intends stalking Reds for instance.

The trouble is, how do you improve it? If DMQ insisted that to get the Level 2, a person needed to take say 4 deer, but each of a different species, I am sure people here would complain loudly that they only ever stalk XXX , so why should they pay to stalk the other species just to get their Level 2?

I think the answer is that the qualification is what it is...A person has a portfolio of evidence and where needed can produce that to an interested party..Its up to that interested party to decide just how relevant that Level 2 is depending on the circumstances.

Nobody is saying that holding the Level 2 is the "be-it- and- end-all", nor that somebody who holds it is some sort of "superstalker"; rather that coupled with the Level 1, its show a basic level of knowledge & experience and is really only a starting point, nothing more...
 

jingzy

Well-Known Member
I think you will probably find that if someone does their first 3 stalks during a level 2, they will fail.

They would have to gain experience to know what they are doing so that they can show and answer the relevant questions.

Only then will they pass, so it isn't really that P15H. It is there to show that they HAVE got the competance.

J
 
Top