BDS dsc 1 Course

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cervus

Well-Known Member
I was very sorry to hear from one of my novices that the BDS DSC1 Course that he attended resulted in 2 people walking out of the course due to the manner of the "instructors" and the overall sloppiness of the presentation, on analysis it appears that these "trainers" are so far up their own agendas that they cannot lower themselves to accommodate the common courtesies that should be extended to students who are willing to learn and pay for the opportunities of adding to their basic knowledge....same names keep cropping up in this respect, any comments?
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
That's a shame. Perhaps training methods as well as assessment methods should be specified centrally to weight the process back in the delegates favour a little more.

ReneZ seemed to have an enjoyable time on his.

I suppose there is NO chance of you naming names here ?
 

The Mole

Well-Known Member
cervus said:
on analysis it appears that these "trainers" are so far up their own agendas that they cannot lower themselves to accommodate the common courtesies that should be extended to students who are willing to learn

Come on cervus, you can't tease us like this - examples?
 

jingzy

Well-Known Member
Name and shame could be the best option. It would allow others to decide whether to attend courses if the trainers names come up.
 

ReneZ

Well-Known Member
Cervus, sorry to hear about your friend's (?) experience. We had no one walking out and from what I could gather all had a good time. No attitude from instructors at all, nice bunch and we all had some good laughs together. I did my course with BASC Scotland in Trochry and would warmly recommend it to all who are looking for the DSC1.
It is regretful if the course would already become a bad experience as that's no way to start. Indeed, name and shame.
It would be a pity if we would lose some who could be valued members of this community over the attitude of some.
my .02, cheers, Rene
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
This sounds as if it is a case of people thinking that just because they know a lot about a subject they can teach it, wrong! People have to be taught to teach, granted that in a specialism like stalking a person who is very experienced and a good communicator can get the job done. However it is rare that people possess both skills.

It would be nice to have examples of just what went wrong on this course to cause the people to walk out. These things need to be known if the BDS is to act, and act I think they should. If ever there was a case of taking the money and then abandoning you to your fate this must be it. These classes must surely be monitored, the teaching levels must have some sort of quality control in place. Somebody must assume overall charge of this, how does it work internally within the BDS, who runs the training programme. I think a complaint should be lodged, names should be named and instances of bad practice highlighted. If it was the BDS getting short changed somewhere along the line I'm sure they would have something to say.

Cervus, any chance you could get your novice to supply more details, write a letter of complaint to the BDS? Is he a member of this site? if so and he does not wish to complain, if he was willing to supply me with the details then I would write to the BDS on behalf of our site and it's members. After all there are a lot of them that are being coerced into taking the DSC1 by their respective Constabularies and it would be nice to know that the bodies supplying this service are doing just that, supplying a service for which they are being well paid.

John
 

ReneZ

Well-Known Member
John, well said.

If this is to be the first hurdle for us then it should be well organised and monitored, ensuring that people get value for what they pay.

Cheers, Rene.
 

cervus

Well-Known Member
BDS DSC 1course

Right Guys,I have read your replies and considered the matter..it is the dissatisfied who must act, not third parties, I know these trainers very well and have had issues with them before this situation arose..the BDS can be a "if your face fits" organisation, I will not in principle witness BDS DSC2 PORTFOLIOS as I have no respect for their assessors in the main, with some exceptions. No, I would dearly like these individuals to be held to account for their alleged inefficiencies,and if DMQ receive the complaints from the students via BDS THEN THEY SHOULD ACT ON IT, my guess is that these people are so up themselves that they feel beyond reach of justified criticism. The students are writing to BDS...i AWAIT THE OUTCOME WITH INTEREST .
 

Bandit Country

Well-Known Member
Formal complaint has to be the way to go. If it concerns matter such as simple politeness and common courtesy then it should be to the BDS as the service provider. If it concerns any dispute over taught material, quality of presentation, interpretation of the Standards or assessment decisions then it should be via the published complaints/appeals proceedure that they must have and make available to candidates.
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Oh dear :cry: there was me thinking that these courses had all the wrinkles ironed out and we had gotten rid of these AW or course leaders with high opinions of them selves.

It seems the problems are still there :rolleyes: I hope they do formally complain, after all its not cheap to do Level 1 or 2.
 

admin

Administrator
Site Staff
If its the photo of a guy carrying a red hind on his back, then yes it was me that gave the advice that he would not be doing himself any good, and if you think otherwise then only a fool would kid himself that he could carry deer over long distances every day during the hind cull on his back without doing himself damage. Where does your health and safety policy come into play. Which post and site are you refering to.

As for opinions, we are all entitled to them, however please do not tell me that there has never been any issues with Level 1 or 2 since it was brought in :rolleyes: One only has to read the posts from some of our members to see what cock ups have occured in the past, and it also appears are still maybe occuring.

There are many stalkers/hunters that have far more experience than many AW's, and there are also some good AW's, such as Laurie Walton at Thirlemere. Having said that if people feel they have been cheated then they have every right to complain. Dont forget these courses cost a great deal of time and money for people to take, and many cant afford it.

Sikamalc
 
D

Davie

Guest
It really dos not matter the attitude of the chap teaching as they will all be different in the technique. What maters is that all of the information needed to deer stalk safely and humanely is given out.If there is a test all relevant subjects should be covered.Then present the beast for human consumption in the proper hygienic way according to the EU regulations. some people need pus hie attitude to learn while others will need the softly softly approach .
There is also the chance that the teacher trainer has had hassle from candidates that have made friends during the coarse only to fail and become aggressive about the fact. Some times it is better if you are going to give some one a test or an exam to stay aloof and out of reach and that way you can control any situation as a neutral.
I know this because i come across the situation most days at work.
:lol:
MY ADVICE IS TAKE OUT ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED AND LEARN IF YOU KNOW THE ANSWERS YOU WILL PASS.
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
I am not sure how much control BASC or BDS have over these courses unless they are run "in house" by the organization themselves.

Same for DMQ for that matter. They set the testing standards ect, but as far as I am aware anybody can set themselves up to actually offer training..

I think DMQ make sure the organisation offering the testing meets certain criteria, but I think its up to the market place (ie us stalkers,) who ultimately pass judgment on the nuts and bolts of the training offered and the manner in which its delivered...

In some ways its a bit like going to a driving school. The DOT approve it within broad parameters, but if an instructor is abrupt or rude, the learner has to sort it out with management of the driving school, not the DOT.

If this particular course was run by the BDS or BASC as others have already stated a complaint should be lodged so it can be investigated.

If the course was run by one of the smaller "stand alone" operations, I suspect "name and shame" on here and other forums will be the only way to garner some satisfaction and to warn others...

Regards,

Pete
 
D

Davie

Guest
Can i just correct you there PETE E if your driving instructor gives you bad or incorrect information then you can report him to the DSA WHO CONTROL ALL TESTS. I would say that if DMQ take money for the exams and courses they are responsible for the conduct of the examiners.
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
If I understand it correctly :

It is the assessment methods which are scrutinised and verified.

Not the training methods i.e. the courses.


The two are very different. It just happens that they are done ususally done by the same people. The awarding body is not the course provider - it is the BDS, but the course provider does it on their behalf.
 

Richard Parsons

Well-Known Member
I did Dsc 1 with BDS this time last year at Wadhurst in Sussex and I could not have had a better time or education. Eternally thankful to both our instructors. ATB
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
Hello and welcome to the forum,

It's probably not you as the OP said the people walked out because of the attitude of the instructors not becasue they had failed assessments.

Your post is a good balance to the argument though.

Along with 243 vs 6.5, head shot/no head shot, and people having huge permisisons, DSC always gets the blood rising. So if it is you (!) then the ensuing arguments about whose version of facts are correct will prove to be very entertaining, there hasn't been a good bust up on here for , ooooh - 3 or 4 days?

S.
 

admin

Administrator
Site Staff
Chris,

Thanks for that it is always good to hear both sides of an argument in order to come to an informed decision.

The only thing is we have not heard the other side of the argument, indeed we do not even know if it is the same argument. All we know is that it was perceived that there was room for complaint on a course and two people left before the course was completed.

When all is revealed, I'm sure that people will come to their own conclusions, and I hope that you keep an eye on this thread in order to maintain a balance if it is required.

In the meantime I would like to thank you for coming on to the site and putting your side of the story, if it is the same story. However I am sure you will agree that it is important for the stalking community to Police the examining authorities in order to maintain a standard Countrywide.

Admin (John)
 

BP75

Well-Known Member
My goodness, could this be that despite the best wishes of some members of this site...it is not a case of training providers letting down students but that some people have might have gone on to a course without preparing properly????
All too often people are keen to have a pop at the current deer management training options and the fact that like everything else in life it costs money!!!!
I have had to spend a considerable amount of my own money undertaking training and participating in courses some good, some not so good, but at the end of the day I do this in order to gain some formal evidence to show that outside of my 15 years plus stalking experience that I know a little about what a subject I am very passionate about.
As an accredited witness I am more than willing to attend stalks for DMQ level 2 portfolios but why on earth would you expect that to be a free service, when was the last time you heard of a free driving test?
I realise that some people may be charging more than others but at the end of the day, vote with your feet, look around and find someone who is able to help you at an affordable cost.
Like it or not DMQ and the like are here to stay and if they are lost they will only be replaced with another system which works on the same principle of having an examinable process to show competency.
I for one do not know it all when it comes to stalking and deer management and find that the learning process, whether that be in the field, with some mates, or on a course or through a book is simply another aspect of this wonderful sport which should be embraced.

Try and focus on the positives...the glass can be half full!

All the best

Ben

(non- BDS member)
 
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