Best bullet for close range deer

bigoak

Well-Known Member
Hey Gary, are they readily available? I have only seen them on the Hornady Website for sale through Cabalas.
They sure look to be a good option. The 125 Noslers have good reports also from those that use them. They are helluva expensive projectile though.
 

bigoak

Well-Known Member
why on earth would anyone other than a "varminter" start with "light for calibre rounds"!?!?
the higher velocities reached are likely to produce much more meat damage and more often than not unpredictable expansion at terminal velocities when they hit bone vs. skin especially at reduced range. (the OP has detailed he is shooting at well under 100yds)
They produce devastating wounds at sub 100yds on smaller game and I personally reserve them for big stags at range
For exactly the reason you just listed. Read the op.
I wouldnt be trying to shoot antelope at 400 m with a 125 gner out of a 308. I would suggest there are better ballistic solutions.
You say unpredictable in one sentence then contradict yourself by saying devastating in the next.???
Anyway do you have anything positive to add or are you just going to knock others? Whats your suggested solution??
 
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Cooter

Well-Known Member
If you are going to head shoot, do not shoot it side on, it is very easy to blow a jaw off. Take it either looking at you or at the back of the skull. Study the shape of the neck bone when deer stand in different positions (talking from experience) the neck lies in slightly different positions depending on head angle IE, feeding or stretching to look behind.
I shoot woodland Muntjac 95% of the time, and park deer culls when the opportunity arises, and the head shot done as described above is the best method for dropping them on the spot and not destroying the carcass.
The only downside is that using V Max makes it hard to check the sub maxillary and retropharyngeal lymph nodes.
 

Offroad Gary

Well-Known Member
Hey Gary, are they readily available? I have only seen them on the Hornady Website for sale through Cabalas.
They sure look to be a good option. The 125 Noslers have good reports also from those that use them. They are helluva expensive projectile though.
​Bought 200 from aftab this week, 36p per bullet (head).
 

Cyres

Well-Known Member
I would have thought any suitable BT bullet, V max, Nosler or Sierra or alike, head or pref neck shot from a stable position (highseat). Also you are unlikely to get any runners and its easy to take the head off with a high neck shot as the spine will be totally destroyed. Experince based on 6mm versions of above bullets. No issues with meat damage as you generally don't eat the high neck anyway. Also don't have to bleed and no mess.

D
 

tackb

Well-Known Member
​Bought 200 from aftab this week, 36p per bullet (head).
what are you talking of ? oh my god i am so furious you didn't use the term i consider best for the bit of the bullet thats flys out the barrel ! how can anybody possibly understand what you mean?

:stir::rofl:
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
I've not read all the replies so this may have been covered. My main concern would be knocking the beasts down quickly as it sounds as if they may be close to the boundary. Heart/lungs shot deer can run some distance before dropping.
 

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
For exactly the reason you just listed. Read the op.
I wouldnt be trying to shoot antelope at 400 m with a 125 gner out of a 308. I would suggest there are better ballistic solutions.
You say unpredictable in one sentence then contradict yourself by saying devastating in the next.???
Anyway do you have anything positive to add or are you just going to knock others? Whats your suggested solution??
In my description "devastating" is not a good thing!
its the kind of thing that leads to throwing away all but the haunches on a chest shot stag

I also stand by the "unpredictable".
Ballistic tipped varmint rounds can work well on chest shots but also might not due to their construction. clip the humerus on the way in and you have little or no penetration.


I did read the OP

I'm probably more than capable of taking a head/neck shot but prob won't ever take such shot on a deer.
he is not looking for a park culling, light, high velocity, flat trajectory frangible, head shot round
he is looking for a downward angled, sub 75-100yd, chest shooting, good penetration, minimal meat damage, with some degree of control on exit velocity....round

As I was when I posted this back at #27

As far as tuning a load for a specific circumstance I did something similar with my .243 for roe on a forestry lease.

100gr Interlocks both Soft Point and Roundnose
running around 2700fps and producing
1/2-3/4" groups at 100yds which was the limit of any shooting I ever did there, impossible to see further than that in most places!

slapped them very hard but without the meat carnage of an 87gr interlock doing 3100fps

decent bullet construction is more important that velocity though IMO
 

Double four

Well-Known Member
Gotta love this forum :) mass hysteria when the word varmint projectile is used in the same sentence as deer !

I often wonder if those who try to diss them at every opportunity just like working their dog or just never even tried them. fact is I have had far more deer run with so called "proper" deer projectiles than the varmint type.

I moved onto partitions in my .243 after shooting quite a number of deer with v max not because they weren't any good as they were a superb fast roe killer but because of other peoples views and when in Rome and all that.
Truth is I find virtually no difference in damage between the two, and apart from the guaranteed pass through with the nosler it would be hard to tell which was the culprit.
Killing wise inmho I find with chest shots the v max is undoubtedly quicker , but saying that with the partitions although I have had some run they don't usually go far .
 

monarman

Well-Known Member
I profess to be a good stalker..... not deerkiller....STALKER!, so when I get to within catapult range of a deer I use the same bullets as I use when I get into an 'off day' range of around 100yds..... that being a light 110grain bullet out of my 270. It has consistently dropped red stags and roe with no fuss and no more meat damage than a 100 grain 243 round. So under certain circumstances 'light for calibre' is perfect.
Is a 100 grain 243 round used in this country for shooting deer????.......answer is yes so why cant a 125 grain bullet out of a 308 or a 100 grain bullet out of a 270 be used for the same thing??? SHOT PLACEMENT IS WHAT COUNTS AT RESPECTABLE STALKING RANGES!
About time people got a grip and just stuck to what they like and what works in their rifle and their stalking situation.
 

JMS906

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your replies.

Should've said I'm using a .308, my permission is long but narrow, and typically I'm shooting in the narrow direction. Luckily I'm in a elevated position shooting into a natural shallow bowl so my backstop looks ok. Just wanting to make sure I can take the deer down without going mental with high velocity ammo, risking it going through the deer (which is unlikely). I'm loading my own so can tailor them, and use different heads. Currently got 150grn Sierra's #2125 but wondering if these will be "too much"

The species of deer are fallow.
The ammunition you have will be fine. Go for the broadside "just behind the foreleg" shot to hit the heart/lungs. Your bullet should punch right through the chest and produce a decent exit wound, which is what you want - one wound to let the air in and one wound to let the blood out. The entry wound will be about bullet sized, the exit wound typically 1-2". Depending on what they hit (foreleg bone) bullets don't always exit but you should expect it to do so and thus have a safe backstop. A bullet that exits will not have lost much velocity in passing through the animal and will still be lethal for a considerable distance. Ignore any nonsense about needing the bullet to stay in the body because it "transfers all it's energy" etc. Bullets kill by destroying vital tissue. Any bullet that fails to exit transfers it energy to the animal in the form of heat, not tissue destruction. Warming the deer up by a nominal amount isn't what kills it. What kills it is exsangination (loss of blood due to destruction of the heart of major blood vessels) or destruction of the CNS (a spine or brain hit) or pneumothorax (collapse of the lungs due to intake of air through the entry/xit wounds).

I advise you to ignore suggestions that you [try to] shoot them in the neck or, worse, brain. Some people may do it and they may get away with it most of the time but it is asking for a wounded animal with its jaw shot off or a hole through the oesophagus.

-JMS
 

Yorkie

Well-Known Member
The ammunition you have will be fine. Go for the broadside "just behind the foreleg" shot to hit the heart/lungs. Your bullet should punch right through the chest and produce a decent exit wound, which is what you want - one wound to let the air in and one wound to let the blood out. The entry wound will be about bullet sized, the exit wound typically 1-2". Depending on what they hit (foreleg bone) bullets don't always exit but you should expect it to do so and thus have a safe backstop. A bullet that exits will not have lost much velocity in passing through the animal and will still be lethal for a considerable distance. Ignore any nonsense about needing the bullet to stay in the body because it "transfers all it's energy" etc. Bullets kill by destroying vital tissue. Any bullet that fails to exit transfers it energy to the animal in the form of heat, not tissue destruction. Warming the deer up by a nominal amount isn't what kills it. What kills it is exsangination (loss of blood due to destruction of the heart of major blood vessels) or destruction of the CNS (a spine or brain hit) or pneumothorax (collapse of the lungs due to intake of air through the entry/xit wounds).

I advise you to ignore suggestions that you [try to] shoot them in the neck or, worse, brain. Some people may do it and they may get away with it most of the time but it is asking for a wounded animal with its jaw shot off or a hole through the oesophagus.

-JMS
An outstanding post in my opinion. Wish i had said it.

Yorkie.
 

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
Fine advice no doubt
not sure about this bit though:

Any bullet that fails to exit transfers it energy to the animal in the form of heat, not tissue destruction.

a bullet will raise in temperature as it passes through air and then tissue.
I cant see how it can lose a significant proportion of its energy in the form of heat without tissue damage though
 

Brithunter

Well-Known Member
Jeez mate you havent shot much then. Often you cant predict what will exit and what wont. I have shot plenty of fallow with 150 gners out of a 308, some stay in some dont. Pigs, goats and anything I class as medium game is the same.
To the OP, I would look at a 125 gn SST. I have not used them personally but I intend to in the near future.:D
Oh dear I missed this for so long :D.

Well let's see I have recovered exactly two bullets from deer over the years. The first being a 139 Grain Hornady BTSP in 7mm from a Whitetail Buck in Northern Missouri (Sullivan County). It was the second one shot into him as the first broadsides exited after wrecking the heart and lower lungs however he ran down a track towards the creek so I shot him again from my high seat and the bullet entered just at the last rib on the right and was recovered under the skin on th left shoulder. He took a couple more steps then folded saving my struggle to try and lift him back up a shear 6 foot bank from the creek bed.



Where he came to rest.



If one looks closely one can make out the first bullets entry just behind the fore leg which seems high due the elevated shooting position provided by the "stand". He was shot on the second day of the season and was very alert. After the first broadsides shot as he ran down the track at each step a huge spray of blood came out of the exit wound leaving an impressive blood trail.



This is the recovered 7mm bullet.

The second bullet I recover from a deer was also by Hornady this time a 150 Grain Spire Point in 303 fired through my BSA Model E this time in Sussex and the beast was a young Fallow. Frontal chest shot entering just to the right of the sternum and recovered under the skin by the last rib on the left side. Sorry no photos of this nor the bullet.

Now one of the best bullets that I found for my .308 Brno ZKK 601 was in fact the Nosler 165 Grain Ballitic Tip. Worked well on both Roe and Muntjac :D never got the opportunity to try in on Fallow. I switched to the Speer 165 grain #2035 as the chap I was stalking with did not like Ballitic Tips so to keep him happy I switched bullet. I used Reloader 15 for powder in these loads.

The Nosler 165 Grain Balitic tip bullet gave me some of the fastest drop downs of any bullet with that rifle. I tried heavier bullets at first but on my very first deer ever shot had a Sierra 180 grain Pro Hunter blow apart on the Roe Doe. Sure it dropped her at a range of about 90 yards but the bullet came apart leaving jacket and core through out the cheat cavity and even in the liver. I never used them again on live quarry shooting the remainder on the range. Of course this was before the expanding bullet stupidity came about. There were some black and white photos of the carcase but they got lost in a move at some point.

As for may years I had to stalk via paid outings I could not stalk as often as I would have liked. I did get a small bit of ground later on which that Fallow with the 303 was shot. Once I moved north it was back to paid outings once more.
 
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Brithunter

Well-Known Member
Brit now that is a proper bambi, thats cruel :D
Nope that's Bambi's dad here is an uncle:-



who was shot with a 180 Grain Nosler ballistic Tip out of a Sako L61 in 300 Win mag at about 60 yards. Note lack of destruction!

Cousin:-



and this was where "dad" was shot:-



about 70-80 yards out. Something you won't see here in the UK:-







I brought the orange banner home as a momento. My buddy asked the store keeper and he said sure take it.

Due to airline restrictions we ate the tender loins and back straps in camp and donated the rest of the carcase to a local family. The Doe and yearling I also shot were boned out and packed into cool boxes with plenty of ice from the store as home for 10 days was this:-



A very enjoyable trip and learning experience.
 

branko

Well-Known Member
Agree,
90 & 95 grain ballistic tips (deer, not vermin type) in .243 mv-around 3000fps, me-1800 ft/lbs ish, chest shot. Not sure what calibre you are using or which species but you appear to have plenty of knock down power. atb Tim
 

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