Best grouping at 300M

[see it shoot it]

Yes I was, more a oval ball man myself used to play for DRFC when I was a lot younger, but that is not of relevance, the rest of the post is, in my experience not many stalkers using there stalking rifles are capable in the real world not the Internet one of put 3 shots in a 1” bull at 100 yards.

Now have you done DSC1 ? It is one of the few chances most get to see other stalkers shot in a controlled environment unless you are target shooting.

I am with Stag on this one.

ATB

Tahr

level 1 done Nov 5th 2001 passed easy 49 out of 50,shooting was a doddle,didnt do the course just went for the test,level 2 completed Jan 2nd 2007 again no problem,so you see I did mine quite a while ago.
if i remember no one failed the shooting,but i think 1 failed on the questions,I was also the first one with my hand up to do all the safety and shooting tests first.
you and others are missing my point,yes i know there are some shocking shots out there,but its unfair to say 8 out of 9 couldnt hit a 1 inch target from a solid rest.you cannot and should not tar everyone with the same brush,
there are some increidable shooters out there,that just are not interested in target shooting but can go out on a sunday afternoon and kill vermin at serious distance with 1 cold bore shot.
I dont class myself as a great shot but I can hold my own with the best,I would be disgraced with myslef if i couldnt put a full mag into 1 inch at 100 yards,off a solid rest.
i was challenged once at Bilsey from a chap on another forum only last year who said I could shoot deer at distance (lets not get into that one),I turned up at the 600 yard range got my rifle out of my bag dialed the elevation and the wind,took the first cold bore shot which hit left of the 10 ring,after I adjusted another 1/4 MOA the next 7 shots scored 7 V bulls.I diodnt even know what a V bull was untill someone told me what the stickers ment on the bottom of the target
I put the gun in the bag and went for a cuppa,didnt need to do any more.
anyway its matters not what I can do or what anyone else can do as long as your happy doing what you do,who cares.at the end of the day no opne right and no one is wrong.only thing thats wrong is judging others by your own standards
merry Xmas everyone
I find target shooting boring bt thats just me.

 

[Tom D]

I like the challenge idea, I think it would be really difficult with factory ammo though. Its worth noting that I have tried 4 different brands of ammo through my 7-08 and only one of them has grouped under 1"..... This was my first attempt at hand loading, the first and last groups are factory stuff though, and as you can see they are not very impressive compared with the hand loads.

 

[Thar]

See it Shoot it, as you say this is not questioning your ability and there is a difference from passing your level one and putting all 3 of your shots in a 4” circle first attempt, I can’t recall now how many chances you get to shoot your level 1 and pass but it is at least a couple, I am sure somebody will put us right.

2001 there was only David doing level 1 then local to Derby. Ten shot mag’ on your rifle or 3? I have some 30 shot 223 ones around.


I have had lads out who bragged how they dropped foxes at 500 yards, then clear missed stags at 130 yards. I would say 8 out of 10 stalkers could not hit a 1" bull 3 times with there stalking rifle.

ATB

Tahr

 

[caorach]

might even go one further and put it on vid so you can see no cheating ,wherever they end up i will post as like i said for stalking perposes its one shot . the other thing is i dont use a bypod so it will be field conditions ,atb wayne

Got to say I have to use a bipod - have always used one so have never shot prone without it

I don't think there is any need for video as this is for a bit of fun and video might not be handy for everyone. I posted in the general forum to see if I get any interest.

Oh and I discovered that none of the "shoot n see" bulls or patches that I have are 1 inch! Bummer. Now I have to make up some 1 inch dots for myself.

 

[griff]

Its a wonder why we don't win more medals with all the sub moa shooters we have on here.
I,m withStag/Thar on this "8 out 10" got the targets to prove it!!!

 

[palo]

Its quite easy to shoot a 3 shot 1 inch group at 100 yards
but its a lot harder to put your first 3 shots into a 1 inch bull at the same distance.

 

[stag1933]

Its quite easy to shoot a 3 shot 1 inch group at 100 yards
but its a lot harder to put your first 3 shots into a 1 inch bull at the same distance.

Aye. Those first 3 shots on the small bull often decides the final outcome but the card below won that day.
HWH.

 

[Muir]

Ok. Slightly off topic but i was wondering what your (colloquial) definition of the term "off hand" is. I watched a You-Tube vid of a nice young man doing some impressive shooting from a bipod and at one point he was simply shooting prone without a bipod and referring to it as "off hand". Is that correct? Here, "off hand" means standing.~Muir

 

[6pt-sika]

The problem is not the rifle its the nut behind the butt.

There ya go !

Kinda my same thoughts .

 

[6pt-sika]

I like the challenge idea, I think it would be really difficult with factory ammo though. Its worth noting that I have tried 4 different brands of ammo through my 7-08 and only one of them has grouped under 1"..... This was my first attempt at hand loading, the first and last groups are factory stuff though, and as you can see they are not very impressive compared with the hand loads.
View attachment 22454

I'd have to say pretty darned good results for a first attempt at handloading !

I've been handloading well over 25 years and I've seen a number of days I'da been happy with your handload results in recent years !

Deer rifles for me are ready when I can shoot 3 from the bench at 100 yards that are 3/4" or less . Woodchuck guns are ready when they can keep three in 1/2" at 100 yards . Well this is for bolt actions and Ruger #1's . With cast bullets in my 444 lever guns 1 1/2" at 100 for 3 shots is plenty good enough as I rarely ever hunt with them in a place I can shoot over 100 yards .

 

[6pt-sika]

Ok. Slightly off topic but i was wondering what your (colloquial) definition of the term "off hand" is. I watched a You-Tube vid of a nice young man doing some impressive shooting from a bipod and at one point he was simply shooting prone without a bipod and referring to it as "off hand". Is that correct? Here, "off hand" means standing.~Muir

I kinda go with H.M.Pope's definition of offhand . Man standing on his two legs with no rest or aid from a sling . Now granted Pope used a palm rest but it was still no sling or aid of any type other then said palm rest and a hooked buttplate .

I think by Camp Perry definition laying on the ground with no bipod is called PRONE . And they can also use a sling as an aid .

 

[swarovski]

I shot pretty well at 1000yds yesterday,as usual I struggle to see the markers with sun on the targets,a visit too the optitions is in order,my mate shot the best I seen him do with his 260 rem,certainly had my ass kicked yesterday,9 moa windage made it hard,had one set of targets where all 4 shots were in between,that ended my chance of top spot ,was a good day all the same

 

[Tom D]

I'd have to say pretty darned good results for a first attempt at handloading !

I've been handloading well over 25 years and I've seen a number of days I'da been happy with your handload results in recent years !

Deer rifles for me are ready when I can shoot 3 from the bench at 100 yards that are 3/4" or less . Woodchuck guns are ready when they can keep three in 1/2" at 100 yards . Well this is for bolt actions and Ruger #1's . With cast bullets in my 444 lever guns 1 1/2" at 100 for 3 shots is plenty good enough as I rarely ever hunt with them in a place I can shoot over 100 yards .

Thanks,

I was pleased with that too, I am disappointed with the hornady ammo as I had hoped that the 139gn sst might make a good roe bullet, I am going to pull the bullets and weigh the charges just to check, I might reload some with a different powder and see if I can get them to shoot...

 

[Muir]

I shot pretty well at 1000yds yesterday,as usual I struggle to see the markers with sun on the targets,a visit too the optitions is in order,my mate shot the best I seen him do with his 260 rem,certainly had my ass kicked yesterday,9 moa windage made it hard,had one set of targets where all 4 shots were in between,that ended my chance of top spot ,was a good day all the same

Wind: It sucks when it blows.~Muir

 

[swarovski]

My mate was 1st,I was 5th,were worked out he has about 1.5 moa advantage at 1000yds,,where his shot would just be on the target mine would be off in between them,oh well,should all be shooting same cals really

 

[Muir]

WHen I was shooting NRA 500M Metallic Silhouette I remember a gusty, desert morning when I just ran out of windage on my scope. (At least I think I did, when trying to shoot standing while being buffeted by wind it can be hard to tell!) I ended up timing my trigger squeeze to when I swung over the stand two targets to the left of the one I was shooting. I equaled the best 500M round ever had with 8/10 hits. (Seldom repeated even on calm days!)~Muir

 

[caorach]

I've posted photos of my target, as have others, and Apache has kindly posted a file you can download and print so anyone wanting to give the little "lie down and shoot 3 without any sighters, practise or recourse to starting on another target because you've pulled a shot, or had a bad gust of wind ruin your group" should click on the following link and give it a go. Even if you can't get an exact 100 yards from the target or have to shoot from a high seat, our out the window of your truck, give it a go keeping within the spirit of the thing:

Stalking fun shoot - anyone game?

 

[Deerstalkermark]

q1. top of the range deer stalking rifle with well tuned loads and a competent shooter? 1/2" to 1" in decent conditions.
q2. there is not really a chambering that shoots inherently better than any other. recoil, bullet choice, ballistic co-efficient, bullet speed start to come into play at 300m. a fast 6.5 chambering would be my choice for 300m.....

apologies for going off topic in my previous post, but i wasn't the first to do so.........

No worries and a good straight answer.
Thank you

Mark

 

[Deerstalkermark]

This sounds like a chance for a bit of a challenge shoot.

I too am pretty convinced that the vast majority of deer stalkers, using their stalking rifle, their stalking scope set on a reasonable stalking maginification, their stalking zero, their stalking deer legal ammo, prone off a bipod with no additional support etc. couldn't put 3 shots into a 1 inch circular bull at 100 yards. I am also certain that I couldn't, I'd consider myself lucky if I got 3 shots in a 3 inch bull. I also suspect that HWH is pretty well qualified to comment but maybe this is just bias because I believe him to be correct.

I don't of course dispute that there are people who shoot a lot or are naturally talented and who could achieve this it is just that everyone on the internet shoots sub-half inch groups at 100 yards "all day long" whereas the shooters I meet in the real world don't, and if they do the group isn't centred on the bull. There are two conclusions here, either most people shoot a lot better on the internet than they do in real life or everybody I've ever met shoots a lot worse than the members of SD.

I think the red bull on the "Shoot n See" targets is 1 inch so maybe we could organise a bit of a competition. You travel to your normal stalking area, stick up a target with a 1 inch bull, take out your normal stalking rifle with your normal stalking scope set to a normal stalking magnification, go back to as near 100 yards as your ground will allow, (some people don't have ground with a suitable firing point and safe backstop to allow an exact 100 yard shot) load up 3 of your normal stalking ammo, settle yourself in the prone position on a normal bit of your normal stalking ground with only a bipod allowed for support. (I guess you could also shoot sitting or standing or prone off your elbows but nothing MORE than a bipod is allowed, I think most will understand what this means in respect of taking a stalking shot.) Then you shoot 3 shots and photograph the target and submit it. There is no need for measurement or similar, this is just for fun. You act within the spirit of taking a stalking shot so...

YOU DON'T - shoot 50 targets until you get a lucky one with the 3 shots in the bull. Shoot 10 "fouling shots" at different targets until you eventually get one in the bull to start you off. Shoot any more or less than 3 shots unless you want to submit targets for more than one load or rifle just for your entertainment. Practise on other targets first to get your hand in the way. Change the zero on your scope so it is on at exactly 100 yards - for example I'm zeroed at 200 yards and so will have to aim approx 2 inches low at 100 and as I can't see the other lines on the target with my scope at that distance I'll have to guess just like with a deer. Modify the target so the exact aiming point will be marked such that your shots will hit dead on the bull at 100 yards - deer don't have such an aiming point on them but I guess most targets usually have some sort of grid or markings on them and we just have to accept that and if you can see it with your scope at the normal stalking magnification then I guess you can use it. Use a bench with a range of sand bags and the like. Eliminate targets because there was a gust of wind, or you pulled a shot, or you hit a bit of grass, or your mate sneezed just as you fired, or the wind blew the target and it moved slightly, or your elbow slipped on the grass, or for any other of the common reasons we find people using to cover up the fact that they actually shoot a 5 inch group to the 95% confidence level but they choose only to show the occasional exceptional ones.

Maybe we could just use a one inch circle on a white page so everyone with a non-100 yard zero is having to aim off with no guide just like when shooting a deer? Perhaps we can refine the requirements and then post on another thread?

Then you stick the photo of the target up here along with info on the rifle, scope, magnification, exact distance if you know it and maybe even ammo or load info just for interest.

I have to say having posted the question I find my own circumstances to be the same as yours.
Whenever I check zero on my rifle(25-06 Steyr pro mountain with home loads) I shoot it as I would a deer, from a rock, tree, fence post, prone (with no bipod) or off the front of my landy. I zero at 100m for 100m and shooting like that would expect to shoot between 2" and 3" groups with 3 shots and this is about average for most of the shooters I know. I personally would never take a shot out at 300m because I could no way be confident of a clean shot but that's just me and how I shoot. I know others can though. A few years ago on our BDS Annual Stalkers shooting competition a chap turned up with his AI in 6mm BR. We shot 100m and 300m at a Roe silhouette and he just blew everyone away. It was awsome but then again not your average stalking setup.
Good idea regards the challenge

Mark

 

[jon2]

there is a lot of confusion going on here. tr shooters and ftr (i think) are limited to 155gr bullets i believe. match rifle shooters use the faster twist and heavier vld .308 bullets. neither of which can really compete with a 7mm or even a 6.5. a larger .30cal is a different story, but they are using much heavier bullets to achieve higher ballistic coefficients and recoil becomes an issue for the shooter.

at blair atholl they have the longest civilian range in the uk going out to 1233yards. the scottish match rifle boys shoot 1000, 1100 and 1233 yards here with their .308s loaded to the max. there is only one person in the world that has ever shot 20 straight consecutive bulls at 1233yards on this range in over the 100 years that the range has been running, and they were not using a .308, they were using a 6.5-284 shooting 139grain lapua scenars!!!

now nobody is knocking .308's. they are very popular with many factions of the shooting world, but they are no more accuracte than most other calibers, and they are less efficient than a whole load of calibers.

put a fast 7mm against any .308 at 1000yards with the same caliber of shooter behind the bolt and the .308 won't have a look in.

.308 is ballistically proven to be one of the most efficient cartridge designations if not the most efficient full stop! No debate it is fact.