CarlW
Well-Known Member
No doubt put up to it by BASC in their campaign to destroy shooting.
Best non-lead factory ammunition in .308 Win for UK deer?
- Thread starter jcampbellsmith
- Start date
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
You might want to have a read of this paper in the American Journal of Haematology - there is a very clear link between heavy metals in the blood and leukaemia. And we are not talking high doses - average in the study sample was 25 nmols / litre of blood. Lead and other metals are adsorbed through environmental exposure - both from breathing and ingesting
(PDF) A heavy metal baseline score predicts outcome in AML
PDF | Background: Despite abundant epidemiological data linking metals to leukemia and other cancers, baseline values of toxic and essential metals in... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
www.researchgate.net
It seems that the metals provide an environment for cancers to flourish and they are now working on ways to treat untreatable cancers by removing heavy metals from the blood and results are looking very promising.
And 25nmols per litre is really not very much lead. Its about 10 micrograms of lead per litre. Stomach acid is about the same acidity as battery acid, and batteries work on dissolving lead plates. A lead pellet is about 100 micrograms, so you don’t need to accidentally swallow many lead pellets and for them to dissolve a little bit (4hours typically in your stomach) and for the lead to then be adsorbed. Once it is in your blood and bones you cannot get rid of lead and other metals. They just build up.
And its not just leukaemia, many other nasty cancers such as those in the lung and pancreas also seem to flourish with metals in your blood.
Loaded into Barnes own cartridges, I paid £140 for 2 boxes a few months ago.
CH
If you’re asking this are you not happy with the Fox so looking for an alternative?
The 130 gr Fox has worked well since I started using it in July 2018, however bullet technology isn't standing still and I'm open to trying alternatives.
Best regards
JCS
JCS
I fully get that just had to ask.
badmolassesaccident
Well-Known Member
Bump for this thread.
Looking for non-toxic 308 ammo somewhere around west side of London.
Sellier & Belliot 110 grain TXRG blue tipped ammo is available.
But 110gr seems a bit light (for deer) and it doesn't come out that fast considering it is only 110gr. S&B website lists muzzle velocity at 843m/s.
www.sellier-bellot.cz
For comparison Hornady 150gr SST comes out the end of my rifle at about 880m/s, but that isn't non-toxic.
Anyone tried this S&B?
Looking for non-toxic 308 ammo somewhere around west side of London.
Sellier & Belliot 110 grain TXRG blue tipped ammo is available.
But 110gr seems a bit light (for deer) and it doesn't come out that fast considering it is only 110gr. S&B website lists muzzle velocity at 843m/s.
Rifle ammunition with eXergy Blue bullets – Sellier & Bellot
www.sellier-bellot.cz
For comparison Hornady 150gr SST comes out the end of my rifle at about 880m/s, but that isn't non-toxic.
Anyone tried this S&B?
Bump for this thread.
Looking for non-toxic 308 ammo somewhere around west side of London.
Sellier & Belliot 110 grain TXRG blue tipped ammo is available.
But 110gr seems a bit light (for deer) and it doesn't come out that fast considering it is only 110gr. S&B website lists muzzle velocity at 843m/s.
Rifle ammunition with eXergy Blue bullets – Sellier & Bellot
For comparison Hornady 150gr SST comes out the end of my rifle at about 880m/s, but that isn't non-toxic.
Anyone tried this S&B?
Copper isn't non-toxic
All great in studies, but in reality how many stalkers suffer from any of the above?You might want to have a read of this paper in the American Journal of Haematology - there is a very clear link between heavy metals in the blood and leukaemia. And we are not talking high doses - average in the study sample was 25 nmols / litre of blood. Lead and other metals are adsorbed through environmental exposure - both from breathing and ingesting
(PDF) A heavy metal baseline score predicts outcome in AML
PDF | Background: Despite abundant epidemiological data linking metals to leukemia and other cancers, baseline values of toxic and essential metals in... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
It seems that the metals provide an environment for cancers to flourish and they are now working on ways to treat untreatable cancers by removing heavy metals from the blood and results are looking very promising.
And 25nmols per litre is really not very much lead. Its about 10 micrograms of lead per litre. Stomach acid is about the same acidity as battery acid, and batteries work on dissolving lead plates. A lead pellet is about 100 micrograms, so you don’t need to accidentally swallow many lead pellets and for them to dissolve a little bit (4hours typically in your stomach) and for the lead to then be adsorbed. Once it is in your blood and bones you cannot get rid of lead and other metals. They just build up.
And its not just leukaemia, many other nasty cancers such as those in the lung and pancreas also seem to flourish with metals in your blood.
Shooting a deer in the neck, head or even h&l but eating loins and haunches ... minimal risk. A bit like eating grouse and politely putting any leadshot to the side of ones plate. Its not the lump of lead that is the problem, its the compounds found in industrial use. Which is why petrol went lead free when it did, and lead shot and bullets didnt.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Well I know at least three stalkers / game shots who have died from myeloma / leukaemia have eaten game all their lives.
There are studies - which I have posted earlier - that demonstrate that ingested lead from game and venison is biologically available and when fed to pigs results in a significant uptake of lead in the blood - in just the same way that lead in petrol Is taken up.
Amd there are studies on indigenous peoples who survive on hunting and significant rise in lead in their blood and associated health challenges.
Even with grouse and politely leaving the lead shot of the plate, lead will be dissolved by the acids in the meat and this dissolved lead is eaten. You would need to eat a lot of grouse, but same will happen with phaesant etc. especially if you cook them in an acidic casserole such as red wine.
Why take the risk, especially as its a known risk, and the alternatives just work as well.
Not in. 308 but in 30-06, the 150grain. Expands well, even in the little deer. It was a bit slower than I had expected, but performs well enough. I would prefer to keep using my old favourite, Sako Super Hammerhead, but more places where I shoot are insisting on Lead-free, and SB was one of the cheaper and more readily available options for me other than working up yet another homeload. Thus far it has been the usual mix of bang-flop to short runs, no noticeable difference from when I only used lead core ammo reallyBump for this thread.
Looking for non-toxic 308 ammo somewhere around west side of London.
Sellier & Belliot 110 grain TXRG blue tipped ammo is available.
But 110gr seems a bit light (for deer) and it doesn't come out that fast considering it is only 110gr. S&B website lists muzzle velocity at 843m/s.
Rifle ammunition with eXergy Blue bullets – Sellier & Bellot
For comparison Hornady 150gr SST comes out the end of my rifle at about 880m/s, but that isn't non-toxic.
Anyone tried this S&B?
big bang
Well-Known Member
Reviving an old thread but feel it’s relevant: I’m at the beginning of my deer stalking journey (haven’t even been granted my ticket yet), but am well aware of the need to find the rounds that your rifle ‘likes’. Why don’t RFDs offer this kind of mix and match ammo for this very purpose? Is it a legal thing?
I’d be happy to pay a premium for such a box, especially given that I’d still be saving c.a. 70-75% ish (£) and potentially having to store opened boxes of ammo that at best I’d need to re-zero to use, and at worst; not appropriate for hunting
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
With the lead ban approaching I think this would have even more merit to it and encourage people to visit their local RFD.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
You could do worse than the Sako powerhead blade John
I settled on these about 2 years ago - RWS .308 Win. Evolution Green 8,8g | RWS Ammunition
Regards
JCS
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