Big game hunting - marmite

cjm1066

Well-Known Member
Many, including deer-stalkers, will find trophy-hunting distasteful. Many African species hunted can't claim the added justification that they provide food. Can't agree that we must all stick together no matter what; we can and should apply discrimination and discretion. I don't think we're still defending badger-baiting or cock-fighting are we?
Having hunted in Africa I can say that all the meat was used. Trophies, very average animals I culled are on my wall as a memento, as are some UK deer.
 

Highlandsjohn

Well-Known Member
As a keen Africa hunter it gets up my nose that hunters wont unite under one banner. Today its the banning or trophy imports tomorrow it will be driven pheasant. If someone would be so kind as to tell me whats sporting about a line of guns firing at birds that have no option other than to go towards them?? That aside I support what they do. Why?? Because they just like us belong to a brotherhood of people that enjoy shooting/hunting. Also are the birds not commercially reared for shoots?? Whats the difference between them and CBL?? Life is life and all of us have and do take life as well as make the choice not to.

The article in the BASC had me angered to the point that I accused them of publishing a piece written by an anti. The term 'canned hunting' is very nasty one. I have come across people that partake in this hunting practice and I distance myself from them as there is no fair chase to it.

PS If I knew about the petition I would've signed it and passed it on
Agree on the canned stuff. Put and take is no fair chase..
 

norfolk shooter

Well-Known Member
The thing I struggle to get my head around is my Mrs. She will tell her mates I stalk deer, shoot pigeons and go wildfowling. But there is never a mention of Africa. Its like a dirty little secret. To that end I cant put up any of my Africa heads (trophies) at home
 

sauer

Well-Known Member
Naaah sorry yes my wife and I are a team but if I want my heads up on walls I’ll do it !

No difference between a red stag skull on wall or an African trophy .

I had folk round one night and commented how nice it was ( my red stag skull)
Then went off on one about Africa trophy hunting .....
Let’s just say after a conversation and some education over a beer he was blown away ....

I fill freezer but I put skull on wall to sit with a whisky in front of the log burner to reminisce about a day with my brother and a friend ....
So if that makes me a trophy hunter so be it

Paul
 

tusker

Well-Known Member
Many, including deer-stalkers, will find trophy-hunting distasteful. Many African species hunted can't claim the added justification that they provide food. Can't agree that we must all stick together no matter what; we can and should apply discrimination and discretion. I don't think we're still defending badger-baiting or cock-fighting are we?
Do your self a favour and go to Africa and see for your self. I really don't know how you can mention in the same breath sporting hunting with 2 acts that are ,and have been illegal for years to do so is just the vocabulary of the anti,s always quoting illegal acts when discussing hunting.
Tusker
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
I really don't know how you can mention in the same breath sporting hunting with 2 acts that are ,and have been illegal for years to do so is just the vocabulary of the anti,s always quoting illegal acts when discussing hunting.
Absolutely correct. :thumb:

It’s not just years, it’s getting on towards the thick end of two centuries as both were banned in 1835!
 

steve sxs

Well-Known Member
Would sign.....but hadn't heard/seen it! Sadly people that work, live and breath the outdoors are doing just that, and not sitting in front of social media all day. Pop a link up, and see if it can be made to stay in a place where it can been seen/copied for quick access, by busy people.
This makes sense to me, I work still(66) and part time keeper _vermin control, never heard of petition, maybe lots more billy no mates like me :old:
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Have grown up in Africa I see no ethical difference between shooting a duicker, impala, buffalo, or a Roe Deer or a Red Deer or a Chamois, provided you are shooting selected animals in a sustainable manner and do it respectfully. If you able you should do it on foot the hard way.

What I find unacceptable is the over reliance on technology at the expense of skill and hard miles. Yes technology has its place but.

And I have seen and was at one stage involved with returning parts of Africa to their former glory. This would not have happened without hunters and their desire to preserve wild lands.
 

Cumbrian 1

Well-Known Member

Namman

Well-Known Member
Many, including deer-stalkers, will find trophy-hunting distasteful. Many African species hunted can't claim the added justification that they provide food. Can't agree that we must all stick together no matter what; we can and should apply discrimination and discretion. I don't think we're still defending badger-baiting or cock-fighting are we?
Having been on many safaris in Africa , I have never seen a single animal that wasn't used to provide food. What a selfish misinformed statement. When Deer Stalking/ game shooting is next on the antis agenda don't expect me to support you.
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong sadly there are plenty of poor hunting and shooting practices that go on. The idea of driving around in a comfortable 4x4, taking a few steps across the grass and then shooting something to my mind is not proper sport.

Yet pretty much what happens whenever there is any form of driven hunting, or even for that matter hunting from a high seat or stand. It's down to the hunter be selective and ethical.

Now when I took my chamois last year, yes I could have sat in a high seat, but I made it clear that I wanted to hunt it the proper way - ie on foot and in the mountains with a proper stalk. But appreciate that for say my father who is now pretty much unable to walk there may be fewer options and a highseat would be a perfectly valid way to hunt.

The late Don Heath, who wrote as Ganyana, in an article a few years ago asked whether big game hunting was a sport - his view view was that the classical interpretation of sport was that it must carry a good element of risk and challenge, other wise its just a past time or entertainment. I will find the article - have it saved somewhere.

Not sure if I would go quite that far, but I certainly think that with ethical hunting the odds need to be in favour of the hunted animal. If you watch the like of Meat Eater, Steve Rinnela spends a lot of time talking the misery and hard yards of hunting. To shoot a Moose in Alaska for instance usually requires multiple days of misery in the wet and cold just trying to find one. Hunting red deer in the highlands, especially hinds in the winter is proper hunting, so to my mind is stalking Roe bucks or shooting geese on the foreshore.

What is questionable is shooting geese over decoys on the only feed source for miles around, or shooting deer in winter again over the only feed source, or hunting with the aid of lamps / thermal or night vision.

There are occasions when for control measures such practices are required. To my mind these are not hunting, nor particularly ethical, but on occasion are necessary. But if good sensible wildlife management is carried on in an ethical and sensible manner, such practices should not be needed.
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong sadly there are plenty of poor hunting and shooting practices that go on. The idea of driving around in a comfortable 4x4, taking a few steps across the grass and then shooting something to my mind is not proper sport.

Yet pretty much what happens whenever there is any form of driven hunting, or even for that matter hunting from a high seat or stand. It's down to the hunter be selective and ethical.

Now when I took my chamois last year, yes I could have sat in a high seat, but I made it clear that I wanted to hunt it the proper way - ie on foot and in the mountains with a proper stalk. But appreciate that for say my father who is now pretty much unable to walk there may be fewer options and a highseat would be a perfectly valid way to hunt.
Have you spent tens of hours carrying lumber by hand by yourself through a forest then built a Hochsitz?
Or would it just be easier for me to sit on a log overlooking a well used game trail that I had scouted?

As for driven hunts, here is a playlist of almost 120 hunts where not once did I take a few steps from a comfortable 4WD across grass.



and here is another

 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Have you spent tens of hours carrying lumber by hand by yourself through a forest then built a Hochsitz?
Or would it just be easier for me to sit on a log overlooking a well used game trail that I had scouted?

As for driven hunts, here is a playlist of almost 120 hunts where not once did I take a few steps from a comfortable 4WD across grass.



and here is another

No I personally haven't hauled timber 100's of yards to build a Hochseat, but have helped to repair them. What I object to, and what I think is at the route cause of a lot of the problems is that there is a perception that you fly in, are driven in a 4x4 to a stand and 10 minutes later a big beast walks past and your shoot it, and then you pay a large bill, have lots of pictures taken and then boast about what a wonderful hunter you are etc. A couple of times I have been on a driven phaesant / partridge shoot - large numbers of birds shown, all very easy and very large bags. Every body was being encouraged to shoot as much as possible - I remember one invite where I picked up more birds on one drive than I normally shoot in a season. Most were shooting double guns, I was just using a single gun. I had a long hard think afterwards.
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
Lord, I wish I had a hunt like that minus the payment. It would make up for the hours of toil in the forest on hands and knees looking for blood trails.
 

Tony Morgan

Well-Known Member
When Deer Stalking/ game shooting is next on the antis agenda don't expect me to support you.
Are you one of the 'we must all stand together no matter what' merchants? If we adopt that approach we'll never clean up our act regarding, for example, enormous and completely unjustifiable bags of driven pheasants - and if we don't, they will put paid completely to driven pheasant shooting.
BTW, I agree that trophy hunting does a lot to help local economies and communities.
 

Namman

Well-Known Member
Are you one of the 'we must all stand together no matter what' merchants? If we adopt that approach we'll never clean up our act regarding, for example, enormous and completely unjustifiable bags of driven pheasants - and if we don't, they will put paid completely to driven pheasant shooting.
BTW, I agree that trophy hunting does a lot to help local economies and communities.
No I am not necessarily one of those merchants, whatever that means, but I have seen enough damaging legislation being enacted with hardly a whimper from other shooting disciplines . Remember semi auto rifles, handguns etc . We hardly had any support from, for example, from clay shooters. If you think that the antis will stop at trophy hunting then you are naive . What's next fox shooting , nightvision , thermal imaging? If we don't hang together then we will surely all hang separately.
 

LuckyEddie

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong sadly there are plenty of poor hunting and shooting practices that go on. The idea of driving around in a comfortable 4x4, taking a few steps across the grass and then shooting something to my mind is not proper sport.

Yet pretty much what happens whenever there is any form of driven hunting, or even for that matter hunting from a high seat or stand. It's down to the hunter be selective and ethical.

Now when I took my chamois last year, yes I could have sat in a high seat, but I made it clear that I wanted to hunt it the proper way - ie on foot and in the mountains with a proper stalk. But appreciate that for say my father who is now pretty much unable to walk there may be fewer options and a highseat would be a perfectly valid way to hunt.

The late Don Heath, who wrote as Ganyana, in an article a few years ago asked whether big game hunting was a sport - his view view was that the classical interpretation of sport was that it must carry a good element of risk and challenge, other wise its just a past time or entertainment. I will find the article - have it saved somewhere.

Not sure if I would go quite that far, but I certainly think that with ethical hunting the odds need to be in favour of the hunted animal. If you watch the like of Meat Eater, Steve Rinnela spends a lot of time talking the misery and hard yards of hunting. To shoot a Moose in Alaska for instance usually requires multiple days of misery in the wet and cold just trying to find one. Hunting red deer in the highlands, especially hinds in the winter is proper hunting, so to my mind is stalking Roe bucks or shooting geese on the foreshore.

What is questionable is shooting geese over decoys on the only feed source for miles around, or shooting deer in winter again over the only feed source, or hunting with the aid of lamps / thermal or night vision.

There are occasions when for control measures such practices are required. To my mind these are not hunting, nor particularly ethical, but on occasion are necessary. But if good sensible wildlife management is carried on in an ethical and sensible manner, such practices should not be needed.
Did you watch Stacey Dooley Investigates Big Game hunting?
If you had, you might have a slightly different outlook.
Also with geese laying waste to large tracts of farm land do you want to tell the farmers in the Hebrides that they shouldn’t allow goose control on their land. The fields are picked off one by one by the geese and they don’t care if it’s grass or winter barley; they’ll eat, trample and crap on it all whatever it is.
There also needs to be a balance in deer stalking, with one side saying there’s too many deer and the estates wanting decent heads for selling to rich overseas clients.
My first deer I took within an hour of leaving the car, set up in a high seat and had to call the buck in. That experience will stay with me for as long as I live. I’ve taken other beasts, both from ground level and from high seats. When the grass and rosebay willow herb are lush and 3-4ft high, then you can have a deer walk past at 20m and not see it and that is when a high seat comes into play.
So would you look at roost shooting pigeon or say “naw they need to be flying”? Roost shooting with an air rifle or a short barrelled rimmy with reduced charge rounds is a great way to spend a day/evening in the woods.
 

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