Brass cleaning ... what am I doing wrong

[Dazza9t9]

I can’t stress enough. I am not concerned over bright shiny brass as long as it is safe

 

[Stalker62]

I can’t stress enough.

And that old son is exactly the problem...

 

[paul o']

When I was going down the wet path I did this same as you ! but I had an old kettle i'd put in the cases and par boil them till they were hot with distilled water not tap, drain them off wife lost her colander lol , I made a peg nail board I then placed the hot cases over the pins with paper cloth under to draw the water away I then used my hobby air line to blow the pockets out job done . Now back to cob tumbling

far less faff for the same results .

 

[Dazza9t9]

I know. I’m happy they are solid and safe.
After doing some further reading it is down to now rinsing enough and residue from the cleaning staining the brass.
I’m half they are safe and will move on to the next stage with them

again thank you those who have helped and provided advice.

 

[Dazza9t9]

If I hadn’t been given this U/S I possibly would have bought a tumbler. But seen as though i have it (£600 worth too) I was hoping to hone the best way to use it.

I don’t mind staining and colouring as long as they are solid and safe.
after all the target is not going to be bothered what the case looks like

 

[jb1]

Ive used Seaclean for ages, its certainly not that. I have put cases in the oven to help speed up the drying process but not at 180 !!!. 80 yes let it get up to temp then turn off the heat and just leave the fan on, but generally i dont bother.

Every days a school day, however old we get.

 

[riflerob]

I would say the temperature is too high, for too long.

All you need to do is dry out the cases. Not cook them. Left for a few days in an airing cupboard, lying on top of a radiator. All those will be fine.

 

[phaedra]

PM Sent

 

[Apthorpe]

I give the outsides a quick twist with some 0000 steel wool, use a Lee twiddly primer pocket cleaner and the inside of the neck a very light scrub with a bore brush.....and only every couple of loads. I'd be surprised if i spent 15 seconds per case.
I can imagine no functional reason to do any more ....except if I was to start shooting much larger quantities of rounds.

 

[levigsp]

View attachment 157155
after the oven

I am not overly concerned on appearing as long as they are safe to use.

but if there are any pointers

You have done the same as I did, stuck them in an oven and they get too hot and ruined the cases as the whole case goes soft. I keep being told you cannot get them hot enough in oven, rubbish on the lowest setting my gas oven over heats them in 15 minutes. THE CASES THAT HAVE GONE BLUE ARE DANGEROUS.

 

[Davee]

Rinsing 5 times reduces the contaminates to the ppm level. HOWEVER rinsing with tap water introduces a different set of contaminates, if your water is acidic it may contain tannins which will certainly stain the cases. I use a US cleaner with Sea Grass etc, rinse 3 times, dry on a warming map. Those sold for vivariums are only a couple of bucks -and you can get a couple of hundred cases onto an 8 inch square one- they use next to nothing in electricity, and it dries them over night.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Have you considered a reaction with the aluminium foil?
Aluminium, Brass, Water, heat - recipe for galvanic corrosion between metals suitably far apart on the galvanic scale
What does the foil look like

I would have no problem using the cases
What you have described is surface corrosion or reaction and at the temperature you quote will not have imparted any structural change to the brass.

Wipe it off and don't do it again...

 

[Kevgun]

I have tried all the different methods, but quickest and easiest for me is Stainless steel pins 1/2 teaspoon of washing up liquid and teaspoon of rinse aid tumble for 2 hours job done, then Dry them in one of these 15L 5 Tray Electric Food Dehydrator Fruit Vegetable Dryer Beef Snack Jerky Dry | eBay this is the same unit as the one you can buy from Brownells for £90 30mins at 70 degrees does the Job nicely.

 

[Kevgun]

I used Seaclean once in my ultrasonic cleaner and it turned my cases almost black, it's made from seaweed, so must have some kind of salt content that could be causing the tarnishing.

 

[Alantoo]

I can’t stress enough. I am not concerned over bright shiny brass as long as it is safe

In the OP's photos you can see an abrupt change of colour at the extractor groove, the most intense blue colour is at the thickest part of the case wall. It would be impossible to produce heat scale in that distribution by the relatively evenly distributed heat in the chamber of an oven...even with an induction heater the cut off would not be so sharp. If the discolouration was from heat scale alone, the whole case would be discoloured especially the thinner section towards the case mouth. The head has the thickest part of the brass and so the heat colour graduation range would go in the opposite direction with an oven chamber heat source, the intense blue being at the case mouth.

On the Barrett case image you can see the blue changes into the purple and straw colours moving away from the higher heated area, not towards it

That distribution and abrupt change of colour in the OP images is relatively easy to produce by chemical patination if it was as a result of contamination by rolling in fingers or fabric where contact and transfer was not made to the recessed extractor groove.

The only thing I cannot explain from the images, and the given information of heating and handling, is why the bit beyond the extractor groove, the edge of the head, was not similarly contaminated. Unless that was the bit that was rubbed to try and remove the colour after the event...But equally it cannot be explained by the heat scale theory.

The discolouration appears to be as a result of chemical patination where the most intense colour was produced by the length of time the chemicals were in contact...possibly being driven off the thinner sections of brass towards the shoulder and neck sooner as the case warmed up.

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

THE CASES THAT HAVE GONE BLUE ARE DANGEROUS.

Presuming you are speaking about heat scale blue which is likely to be formed around stress relieving temperatures below 400˚C...Do you have any evidence that this is actually the case?

I have seen it repeated many many times on the internet, but have some misgivings as to its veracity.

Even fully annealed brass is still brass. It is not as springy and hard as an OEM case body maybe, but more ductile and elastic and less likely to crack. The only thing that I can imagine happen if even the whole case was fully annealed was that it would expand and conform more readily to the confines of the chamber, and not spring back enough to grip the primer on subsequent reloadings. It would obturate perfectly, so where do you see the danger?


Alan

 

[levigsp]

Presuming you are speaking about heat scale blue which is likely to be formed around stress relieving temperatures below 400˚C...Do you have any evidence that this is actually the case?

I have seen it repeated many many times on the internet, but have some misgivings as to its veracity.

Even fully annealed brass is still brass. It is not as springy and hard as an OEM case body maybe, but more ductile and elastic and less likely to crack. The only thing that I can imagine happen if even the whole case was fully annealed was that it would expand and conform more readily to the confines of the chamber, and not spring back enough to grip the primer on subsequent reloadings. It would obturate perfectly, so where do you see the danger?


Alan

Before I new what I was doing I was lamping a lot and cases would endup in the bottom of the land rover. I
I removed them and washed then in fairy liquid to remove all dirt, shook the excess water off them and put them in the oven and some went blue as per op photo.
I reloaded as per normal and went out lamping. When I fired a shot I automatically went to reload and no such luck! I could not open the bolt. Checked everything and found it was simply the bolt would not open, so the action was clamped and the bolt was forced[gun smith] sadly I do not have photos the case was crumpled, it was swaged against the bolt face [Mouser] It was split from the head for about 1/4 inch and looked like a head on car crash. The Gunsmith said it must have been a double charge, not possible with 100% fill, so some sort of contaminant was sugested.
I pulled 3 bullets checked everything and reloaded the cases and tried again with the same result only a bigger split oin case and one mouser 98 wrecked, if it had be a lesser built I might not have been so lucky as the bullet remained in the barrel an inch from the muzzle. So is the head end gets annealed its dangerous. hence the reason cases are only annealed neck end.

 

[levigsp]

View attachment 157312
View attachment 157313
In the OP's photos you can see an abrupt change of colour at the extractor groove, the most intense blue colour is at the thickest part of the case wall. It would be impossible to produce heat scale in that distribution by the relatively evenly distributed heat in the chamber of an oven...even with an induction heater the cut off would not be so sharp. If the discolouration was from heat scale alone, the whole case would be discoloured especially the thinner section towards the case mouth. The head has the thickest part of the brass and so the heat colour graduation range would go in the opposite direction with an oven chamber heat source, the intense blue being at the case mouth.
View attachment 157314
On the Barrett case image you can see the blue changes into the purple and straw colours moving away from the higher heated area, not towards it

That distribution and abrupt change of colour in the OP images is relatively easy to produce by chemical patination if it was as a result of contamination by rolling in fingers or fabric where contact and transfer was not made to the recessed extractor groove.

The only thing I cannot explain from the images, and the given information of heating and handling, is why the bit beyond the extractor groove, the edge of the head, was not similarly contaminated. Unless that was the bit that was rubbed to try and remove the colour after the event...But equally it cannot be explained by the heat scale theory.

The discolouration appears to be as a result of chemical patination where the most intense colour was produced by the length of time the chemicals were in contact...possibly being driven off the thinner sections of brass towards the shoulder and neck sooner as the case warmed up.

Alan

Alan if all the cases were left stood upright on something I would agree, left lying on a metal tray not so. Some of my cases looked normal, those touching the steel tray were seriously blue and not all over. Think about a cake in an oven the bottom touching the cake tray burns the sides touching dont ant the top doesnt.. I wrecked my gun by not knowing.

 

[levigsp]

For those of you doubting brass being oven annealed, get in touch with a metallurgist, I have just checked and putting cases in an oven at 180 deg will soften modern brass, if left to get to that temp, laying on a steel tray in an oven at that temp it does not take many minutes. As said needs the temp to be a lot lower.

 

[BEAR1]

I usually clean mine in walnut media with a dash of brass polish and when clean and sifted put in an old pillow case and move about until nicely polished. Just don't like the idea of putting dirty cases back in rifle chamber to build up. I am sure everybody has there own ideas, do what suits you.