Dazza9t9,
I’ve got in from work and checked over the brass. It is heavily tarnished, and it won’t rub off. However it looks nice and clean and feels solid.
i have checked my U/S and it’s a 150watt, that shouldn’t case any issues.
I will try collect some “scrap” brass and do some more testing and see what other outcomes I get. I’ll attached a picture of one of the more coloured cases.
Please clarify. To begin with you told us that the discoloration just wiped off.
But in post #40 you now say "It is heavily tarnished, and it won’t rub off. However it looks nice and clean and feels solid." I'm not sure what you mean by "feels solid" ?
From what I've read on
James Products | SeaClean2 Solution Sea Clean 2 is:
"
Made from a unique formula containing natural products, mixing carefully balanced quantities of seaweed, coconut oils and fruit extracts to create a powerful cleaning solution.
SeaClean2 will assist in the removal of tarnish, carbon, rust and dirt from most solid metals (not for use with plated metals), to return to a shiny condition."
Which all sounds very soothing, natural and nice. Note the use of "
containing natural products" Not "only made of natural products" Whatever a "natural product" might be.
My guess is that the fruit extracts are d-limonene, a powerful degreaser. Often referred to as "citrus degreaser" which is good stuff for e.g. cleaning greasy bicycle chains etc. and can be safely flushed down the drain. Well not actually, once it has taken off the grease and gunge, but best not think about that.
You can actually buy 100% d-limonene at reasonable prices, it is potent stuff in pure form, commonly used for cleaning 3D printer nozzles of polymer residues.
Not sure why you would put a seaweed extract in it. Nor coconut oil. Other than to big-up it's "natural" credentials and justify the "Sea" naming.
However there must be other things in it as well for it to be able to help remove tarnish, carbon and rust. Perhaps the "
most solid metals (not for use with plated metals)" warning is a clue. That, to me, suggests that there may be some corrosive, perhaps acidic, chemicals in it as well. If it is likely to damage plated metal finishes, strong enough to attack rust and tarnish, then it cannot be entirely a benign product, just made from seaweed, fruit and coconuts.
OK, a quick scan of the MSDS reveals that, as well as a few flourishes of eco greeniness, what's actually in there, probably doing the real work, are :
Hazardous ingredients:
1,2,3-PROPANETRICARBOXYLIC ACID, 2-HYDROXY-MONOHYDRATE
EINECS CAS CHIP Classification CLP Classification Percent
- 5949-29-1 Xi: R36 - 1-10%
Guess what "propanetricarboxylicacid" is ? Just a fancy name for citric acid.
webbook.nist.gov
AKLYL POLYGLYCOSIDE
- - Xi: R36 - 1-10%
This is a non ionic surfactant (i.e. a wetting agent, albeit used in rather a high concentration. You certainly wouldn't want to get a drop or splash in your eyes.) A squirt of whatever takes your fancy, from Fairy liquid to say Ecover might do the job as well, however the thick gooey ones are probably thickened up with salt. Not good. I would choose something like a good automotive windscreen cleaning concentrate. Or a dishwasher "rinse-shine" fluid.
1-HYDROXY-ETHYLIDENE-1,1-DIPHOSPHONIC ACID
- 2809-21-4 Xi: R41 - <1%
This an interesting ingredient. I don't know much about it. It will only be in the diluted solution in small quantities. Otherwise known as Etidronic acid, possibly being added as a scale and corrosion inhibitor for ferrous metals.
en.wikipedia.org
1-Hydroxy Ethylidene-1,1-Diphosphonic Acid (HEDP) is an organophosphoric acid corrosion inhibitor. HEDP can chelate with Fe, Cu, and Zn ions to form stable chelating compounds.
www.thwater.net
I would suggest that a post treatment rinse in say an alkaline weak baking soda solution, might be a good idea to neutralise these acids.
Baking wet cases, possibly inadequately rinsed, in an oven at (good grief) 180C, using a fluid of unknown chemical composition sounds like a recipe for accelerating any corrosion processes.
But I would bet that most Sea Clean users are content to just use the stuff as suggested, never roasting them in an oven afterwards and are quite happy with the outcomes. The materials used, as far as I can tell, seem to be sound, credible, by no means novel, .
From the ingredients list it doesn't appear to me to be much different than just using the tried and tested citric acid pickle plus detergent homebrew concoctions, except maybe also including a splash of citrus degreaser as well. Then neutralise afterwards with a dilute bicarb rinse before air drying.
Just stop roasting them. Water dries out soon enough with just a modest elevation of temperature.
But maybe take a step backwards. Cases do not need to be surgically clean. Actually I do not think that they need to be cleaned at all, other than to keep the outside, and the inside of the neck, respectable.
Which can be simply done, as others have mentioned, using just some steel wool, or nylon pot scourer, an old bronze bore brush for inside the neck, and a primer pocket scraper (ground down screwdriver bit, or the Lee tool), chucked up in a battery drill or screwdriver.
Personally I just dry tumble them in my own mix of crushed walnut shell reptile bedding, a sprinkle of jewellers' rouge, and a squirt of carnauba based liquid car wax. They emerge looking better than new, super shiny and polished and do not tarnish afterwards. I reckon that's due to the carnauba wax protecting them.
I bought the vibratory Lyman tumbler long before things like ultrasonic or SS pin tumbling had been conceived of for cleaning brass, nevermind the equipment becoming affordable.
Since I have the tumbler, which still works well after all the years, only one moving part inside the induction motor, I still use it.
But I could equally well live without it and go back to my old ways by simply decapping then chucking up in a Lee lockstud/shellholder, spinning up in an electric drill or screwdriver, rub over outside with steel wool or scotch-brite or supermarket green pan scourer, old bronze bore brush down inside the neck, cutter and length gauge next, if anything obviously cut off, then the inside and outside chamfer (minimal cuts, better just use a pad of steel wool to deburr).
If you like things looking shiny, follow up by spinning in a rag smeared with say Solvol or Peek. Not Brasso (the ammonia in it, whilst working a treat for making brass shiny, can also etch into the grain structure and weaken it).
If starting again I'd also look closely at the steel pin (or other media) wet tumbling methods Simple mechanical abrasion. Getting cheaper and more accessible now, from China.
Bottom line:
As soon as you start applying chemicals, and/or heat, to brass, you had better understand what you may be doing to it.
An ultrasonic cleaner can loosen crud from a surface using just plain water, with maybe some benign detergent to then keep the crud in suspension. For anything more than this you need stronger chemicals. Which have nothing to do with the basics of how an US cleaner is supposed to work.
Which, ultimately, is a mechanical process as well, except that rather than scrubbing the material mechanically, the US device is creates cavitation bubbles that then collapse shortly (microseconds) afterwards, thereby scrubbing the surface with whatever chemicals are in the tank.
You could get all scientific, and weigh your brass before and after each cleaning method, to determine how many milli or micro grams of grot have actually been removed from the inside. Which, I would suggest, is not a lot. I reckon it pretty soon reaches an equilibrium, as much being blown out as newly deposited. Likewise primer pockets. Do they have to be surgically cleaned every time ? Or ever, really.
Since you are from Durham, you could maybe pop in to Carbusonic at Wheatley Hill and pick up five litres of the concentrate that they make specifically for this job. I don't know if it is any good, nor can I find an MSDS for it to give a clue,
Ultrasonic cleaning fluid concentrate Brass shell case formula 5lt For use with an ultrasonic cleaning tank 1 part solution to 15 parts water use at 35 degrees
www.carbusonic.co.uk
