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I have a 4 year old black lab' bitch who's performing very well for me and I'd like to take a litter from her using a friends dog. Trouble is, she came to me via a couple who were breaking up & her papers are missing (which is a real pity as I'd love to know where she was from) She's definitely pedigreed and from good stock by the look of her. She came from around the Milnathort area originally.

My question is, assuming she has decent hip scores & PRA testing done, would a lack of known history be something that should make me think twice about taking a litter from her? I would really like a pup from her for myself. Obviously I'm not in it to make money, but it would be reassuring to know I'm not selling prospective buyers a pup (as it were :lol:) The sire would have papers, & she would obviously be shown to prospective buyers


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I often wonder how many "pedigree" dogs are the same one on the paper in the flesh?
I know of a couple of unplanned matings that were later claimed to be from a champion stud dog,

if you want a pup youself and others do, go for it,
before I had my ESS to the stud dog the other year, I had 5 people wanting pups,


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I'd agree with that! My main concern is that the pups are as fit & healthy as I can get them to be, rather than be able to boast about how much red ink is in the pedigree. There are far too many irresponsible & feckless breeders out there as it is & I just want to be certain I can't be tarred with that same brush. At the end of the day, I want a pup for myself that's got some good blood in her & I don't want to be faced with problems and heartache down the line, nor do I want anyone who buys a pup from me to have any worries on the health front either.


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The biggest problem u have is not the lack of papers but the lack of knowledge of her breeding.

KC papers are just that papers with a fancy logo on them they don't mean jack other than u know who the parents are, most working lab breeders that are unregistered will know who the parents/grand parents are just the same just not recoered on fancy paper.

Ur problem is u don't know who the parents were. The dog u intend to breed with could be a sibling/related (unlikely) or could have close decendents (not that unlikely in some circles esp if fancy studs been used)

My young lab is unregistered but i know its pedigree/parents so not overly fussed about KC stuff but i would not buy a pup i never knew the breeding in it, atleast to 3 generations back.

Do u even know the dogs posh name? or DoB possibly u could track it throu the breed register but will be hard work. Do the old owners not have any contact details/info from the breeder?

Most will disagree with me here but depending how hard u work ur dog bad hips would show up when working hard on shoots, and even some studs with low hip scores throw pups with poor hips. In my area i've never heard of a working lab with bad hips and esp 20+ yrs ago most were all beating line bred dogs with no health testing but also not using the same stud dogs

The simple fact is if u get ur dog tested for hips/eye test possible optigen will cost a lot of money that u will never recover from unregistered pups, and while i know it is not about the money there is plenty of very good working lab pups out there. If u've trained 1 to a deecnt standard i'm sure ur next will be just as good if not better even if its not related to her blood line


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Some good advice there mate, thank you :thumb:

Food for thought, definitely. I have no knowledge of her breeding whatsoever. Not a clue as to her kennel name, KC affix or who the breeder was. I contacted all the breeders I could find in the area but drew a blank, so it's possible she came from even further afield. I might have to shelve the idea :-|