Bullets.

basil

Distinguished Member
When i bought my 243 (Howa 1500) i had a discussion at the gunshop about which bullets i should start with. I told Neil i wanted a bullet that would do for deer and fox, but with as little damage to the deer as possible.
Neil said that the Federal, power shocks, 100 grainers would do the job but if i or the rifle didn`t like them i could take the unopened boxes back.
In fact i`ve found these to be fine for me at present, i don`t want to try any others yet as with my lower level of experience i`ll get to confused.
Has anyone found a bullet that they or their rifle found to be that bad they couldn`t use it??
basil.
 

Duncs

Well-Known Member
Tikka t3 hunter......243 remmington core lock 100 grain. would not hold a group on targets. ( Never missed a deer, but would not group as one would expect. A friend loaded me some 85grain, and now I m in love again!!
 

Richard Parsons

Well-Known Member
Tried sierra 100gr in my Parker Hale Pro Stalker. Rubbish. Tried some Hornady 100gr, still the same. Now trying 70gr but lucky to get a 3" group.
Floated the barrel but still the groups spread!
Given up now, but just use 125gr Sierras in my Sako Finnlight in .308 and puts 3 shots down the same hole off the bench so will stick to this. :D
 

geoshot

Well-Known Member
Prvi Partizan, 150gr in .308 in a Blaser R93.
First 3 or 4 rounds would group lovely, about .75" or so, then the next one would be "where the feck did that go!?" :eek:
Bad enough on the range, absolutley useless on animals. :evil:
Cheap, but maybe there's a reason for that.
ATB
Geoshot.
 

Duncs

Well-Known Member
So glad it is not just me. Failed my level one shoot because of grouping!! Went back 2 weeks later, usng examiners rifle and walked it!!.

Lesson learnt? .....not sure. If I had not done level 1, i probably would still be killing deer, and every so often thinking, umm...a little high, or umm...a little back!!! As I said, never had a deer run of ( joys of engine room shooting) but the bullets/gun combination was not good enough for level 1.
 

basil

Distinguished Member
The answers so far reflect what i am learning. Is there such a thing as the perfect bullet?? I don`t mean to be rude Duncs, but in your case was it bad grouping or just a bad day at the office, even the weather factors can affect our shooting. Please keep your answers coming.
basil.
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
I'm no expert on ballistics and usually keep away from the subject. However I posted sometime ago about the fact that I could not hold a decent grouping with my rifle. So I changed the bullets, the very same bullets that I had used for years; still no good. I then changed my rifle; the new rifle was great on the range but again poor on the deer. I went through every possible reason for this and got very concerned about a number of issues. What was actually wrong was me!
After a day of shooting that I didn't enjoy and rushed; I decided something was wrong. My doubts grew bigger and then knocked my confidence in my shooting and the tools I was using this snow balled out of control. A couple of people off this site informed me that this was the problem and I was looking for answers in the wrong place.

I went back to the range with a fresh and better attitude and guess what my shooting improved considerably! :D Sometimes it’s the simple things that need fixing. ;)
 

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Basil - if you have struck gold with the first type of bullets / ammo why change - get us much of that brand and in particular that batch as you can and sit on it. My Heym SR20 .243 loves RWS 100gn - clover leafs three rounds, but with Federal ammo - I get better groups with my 12 bore and open choke.

Richard Parsons - if free floating doesn't work try: (at risk of telling granny to suck eggs)

1) Shoot groups very slowly - ie give the barrel plenty of time to cool, especially if it has a lightweight barrel.

2) checking that everything else is tight. Is the scope or mounts at fault.

3) Give the barrel a really good clean with a good copper slvent - Hoppes Bench Rest or even JB Bore cleaner - my Heym always grouped pretty well (1 inch or so) with RWS, but I had bought it second hand. A friend who is bench rester swore at the state of the inside of the barrel (it looked perfectly clean to me) and then gave the bore a very good clean with lapping compound and group size shrunk dramatically.

4) Try applying upward positive pressure at the foreend - couple of business cards between the foreend and the barrel. Method suggested by Craig Boddington in his book Accurate Rifles - he recounts how with more than one rifle such treatment turns it from being a rifle to through in the bin to a tackdriver - particularly those with quite lighweight barrels.

With full length stocked rifles (ie Mannlichers) putting positvie pressure half way along the barrel will also have the same effect.
 

basil

Distinguished Member
Heym sr20. I`ve got no intentions of changing - at the moment, as i said, to many alternatives will confuse me. I`m not saying i`ve struck gold, but, i think i`ve got a good bullet at the moment.
basil.
 

Duncs

Well-Known Member
Basil, I am one hundred % sure it was the ammo!! In the end we had a "firearms guru" take the rifle away, he did what he did!!! Tried as he might he could not get it to group with the 100gr., now it clover leafs with home loaded 85 grain, and as I said, I am now back in love with it!!

Since this experience, I have heard of others finding 100 gr a little heavy for a .243.

On the flip side, my 308 t3 simply love federal power shock 150gr, and groups sup inch.
 

Wingers243

Well-Known Member
basil,

I tried several different makes of 100 grain ammunition on a range when I first got my rifle (CZ550 in .243) and picked the best. Like you, Federal Power-Shok all the way. They give me a 3/4" group if I get my head screwed on straight! Norma's shot equally as well but no better and they're 50% more expensive at my local shop.

I did try some RWS as well. Unlike Heym's experience, they were fine ~ if you only wanted to be gauranteed a hit somewhere on a cow's backside!Just goes to show its the combination thats important not the individual components.

Having read a bit on the subject, the twist rate of your rifle will go a long way to determining how your rifle behaves with different bullet weights. Its worth a read for interest even if you don't change anything as a result. put it into google and you'll get plenty of articles.

You got it right in your last post ~ if you have found something that works for you, use it.
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
If I may I would suggest that you find out the twist of your barrel and see how that relates to the weight of bullet that you use. Not everybody does this, as it is not really necessary for most as they use what could be termed as a "standard weight" for the calibre, which proves to be suitable. However sometimes the combination of bullet weight and twist rate do not compliment each, and further investigation may be necessary. If however the twist rate and bullet weight are a good match perhaps then it is time to start making adjustments elsewhere. If you reload then the scope for tinkering is far greater. I cant really offer any suggestions with commercial loads as I have only ever bought 40 of these, and they were for my Hornet, years ago.

This is a link to a definition of rifle twist and and the formula, Greenhill's formula, which is the universally recognised formula used to establish bullet weight and rifle twist compatibility.

Sometimes though a gun just cannot be made to shoot :eek:

John
 

basil

Distinguished Member
My rifle has a 1 in 10 twist. Had a chat with someone today who said that i should try a lighter bullet, he suggested a 75 grainer over three or four different distances, then the same with the 100 grainers to find out the rifles true capabilities.
basil.
 

irishgun

Well-Known Member
basil said:
When i bought my 243 (Howa 1500) i had a discussion at the gunshop about which bullets i should start with. I told Neil i wanted a bullet that would do for deer and fox, but with as little damage to the deer as possible.
Neil said that the Federal, power shocks, 100 grainers would do the job but if i or the rifle didn`t like them i could take the unopened boxes back.
In fact i`ve found these to be fine for me at present, i don`t want to try any others yet as with my lower level of experience i`ll get to confused.
Has anyone found a bullet that they or their rifle found to be that bad they couldn`t use it??
basil.
have no worries about the power shocks 100 gr i shoot sika hear with them the hole time ,even on biggish hybred stags with good bullet placement its going down .they do a 80gr soft point in them i only just started shooting foxes with them very happy so far .i putting them through a t3 cut down to 18 inchs
 

swampy

Account Suspended
lets twist again

We do this all wrong.

CURRENTLY WE SAY

"i fancy a rifle, i like them T3's (example only) i will get a .243, i want to shoot deer with it, what bullet should i use? why won't it shoot straight"

STOP!!!! WE NEED TO SAY THIS

"I want to shoot deer, what bullet is the best wieght? i want a rifle with a twist rate that puts that bullet in the middle of it's capabilities. so i want a 6.5-30cal rifle that will shoot 120-165 gr bullets-- now i will choose a rifle i like the look of once the technical specs are satisfied."

243 is a great calibre. 100g is at the top end of it's capabilities (dependant on it's twist rate) so some bullets it will like and some it won't. if you come down the wieght to an 80 gr bullet which is smack in the middle it will be more forgiving of different bullet designs. I would choose it for foxing every time.

I know some guys have shot buckets and buckets with one and i am in no way critising thier choice. stalking is not a one size fits all game.

swampy
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
My Sauer will not shoot 100gr rounds any sense at all but if I step down to 95 grain then it performs fine with whatever make I have put through it.
 

legaleagle69

Well-Known Member
I took my T3 out to zero it on sunday it was a windy day so wasn't perfect, started of using some very cheap 145 gr russian solids to get it something like, then used 150 gr powershocks at over a quid each to fine tune which was not exactly possible due to the wind blowing my rifle about grr
but to be honest the cheap nasty crap went better than the bloody federal and contrary to what everyone was saying at the range went and grouped in exactly the same place..
I think a lot of it is as Swampy says, you have to look at the weight of bullet and what your rifle is designed to do.
Most factory ammo is much of a much ness, if it will consistantly produce a sub 2 inch group at 100 metres what do you need to clover leaf for unless you are taking up bench rest shooting of course :lol: , as there will always be a little movement by the shooter in field with the adrenalin rushing, it never will be perfect shot. :rolleyes:
In the end its personal choice, if you talk with Wadas he swear by Privi ammo, Geoshot as stated above has told me before of his experience of flyers every 3 or 4 shots.
Everyone has an opinion Basil best you can do is listen to what people say then make your own opinion based on your experience.
 

Dickie

Well-Known Member
I have a steyr sporting barrel wooden stock and a T3 super varmint heavy barrel plastic stock and both .243 and both shoot spot on with RWS100grn.
Steyr wouldn't group on a diner plate with Norma was nearly there with Federal.
Tried the RWS in the T3 before I start working up a home load for it and also grouped very well.

Big thing I think take plenty of time on the range dont rush.
 

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