carlson cremator LR too tight?

[Karhumies]

So i have been getting rather frustrated shooting my BPS at duck and seeming to miss every shot. It came with a carlson cremator LR choke. I patterned it ofcourse, it patterns very tight ofcourse as expected. But iam thinking the steel shot cant keep up at that range. Any thoughts on that? Does anyone actually shoot this choke at waterfowl with steel or is it more of a TSS/turkey type choke?

measuring the choke gets me an IM size. That would translate to about Xfull with steel i believe.

So to summarise the question, is there even a point to using this choke for steel? since the range of The thing looks to be about 40+ meter

 

[Lloyd90]

I would have thought it’s more for geese with big shot size.

I have an X-full high flyer which I think also works out about 3/4 with lead.

Suppose the key question is what range are you mostly shooting (at) ducks?

 

[Karhumies]

I would have thought it’s more for geese with big shot size.

I have an X-full high flyer which I think also works out about 3/4 with lead.

Suppose the key question is what range are you mostly shooting (at) ducks?

30-50 meter is where i mostly shoot. mostly sizes 3 and up. Still experimenting a bit with shot size. I am new to using steel shot and hear alot about how it wouldnt have the energy transfer for that range. So iam considering if i have to somehow close the distance and switch choke. Its very difficult to close distance but at the moment iam 3 weeks in, 2 boxes of shells and 1 duck in the bag. Passing shots is all i get so far, duck are not as stupid as people imagine. I am restricted to a particular area this year with all the other club-les hunters and the duck know it.

 

[Smellydog]

There is absolutely no gain from a high energy value if the pellets don't even connect!!
A shotgun works via the accumulative effect of multiple strikes. Get a box of #5. You don't need high energy for heads necks and wings.

 

[Karhumies]

my Mossberg 835 had the kind of pattern i like. But that gun had to be sent back, wont extract most shells. Using 12/89 no4 with mossbergs "modified" choke i densely covered a 150x200 cm paper at 50m. pretty crazy pattern.

Wonder if i should buy the carlson MR choke instead. I do mostly shoot big heavy loads, its whats sold local at the moment (other stuff sold out and not many want to shoot 89mm shells)

 

[Smellydog]

A pattern is only a 2d representation of a 3d cloud of shot.
Hence why smaller shot sizes should not be dismissed and probably why they go first off the shelves!

 

[Karhumies]

The only ammo i can still source now is trust steel hawk game 12/70 no 5 standard steel, steel hawk magnum no2 and B&P 12/89 no 2/0. everything else is sols out. We have been having an ammo shortage in general this year.

 

[Heym SR20]

I shoot all my duck and geese with steel shot and 1/4 choke out of a Franchi Affinity.

An Ultra Tight choke just makes life far more difficult to hit birds.

Use a more open choke, use you field craft to get the birds in close and pick your shots.

I see too many on the foreshore blaze away and geese and ducks well out of range. And not hit anything anf then blame the kit.

Others shoot three or four shells and come back for two or three ducks or geese.

And as others have said smaller shot is often better. I am convinced that shot guns kill by stunning the bird put of the sky. More pellets = more shock impact.

Most pellets never penetrate to the heart / lungs yet the birds come down hard.

 

[Karhumies]

The choke came in the gun. I have the option of buying a carlsson cremator MR (about IC) for 85 or a set of browning reducers for 50 thats IC M IM and F. I have read mixed reviews about those original browning ones.

ammo wise, i suppose il either have to start loading my own shells or buy up wathever is available wich isnt mutch. Ammo restocks once a year here in spring.

Other options i have is a box of B&P light steel no6 i have left, cant remember why i bought that.

or standard velocity 12/70 steel in sizes 5 4 2 and 1.

Havent really shot mutch standard steel, seems like i would be handicapping myself on shotcount. While it worked the mossberg with those 12/89 shells seemed like it couldnt miss.

We dont hunt geese here, only specific regions under specific conditions. its mostly mallard.

 

[Dunwaters]

Steel patterns tighter than lead, recommended max choke is 1/2, modified.
Whatever choke you choose, range will be less than lead due to faster energy drop off.

 

[Spartina]

Wad Wizard.Supreme Incredible tight patterns with express hevi and large steel at RANGE. Actually lets you use hevi/TSS at the ranges it still kills way out there.
They are in effect cyl after the wad "retaining" ring. Low to no shot-stringing with the shells I use, just stop them in the air dead. But takes a bit of getting used to.

The WW SWAT however I just can't do. In the estuaries I decoy shoot in Scotland after sunset and getting really dark calling them to the decoys I need a 1/4 or even skeet with .. [relatively there are sea ducks and tough big buggers].. small hevi shot 5/6s with an oz 8th.

Back in the day winchester AA 32g no7 clay loads ruled over the close decoys.

 

[Spartina]

The choke came in the gun. I have the option of buying a carlsson cremator MR (about IC) for 85 or a set of browning reducers for 50 thats IC M IM and F. I have read mixed reviews about those original browning ones.

ammo wise, i suppose il either have to start loading my own shells or buy up wathever is available wich isnt mutch. Ammo restocks once a year here in spring.

Other options i have is a box of B&P light steel no6 i have left, cant remember why i bought that.

or standard velocity 12/70 steel in sizes 5 4 2 and 1.

Havent really shot mutch standard steel, seems like i would be handicapping myself on shotcount. While it worked the mossberg with those 12/89 shells seemed like it couldnt miss.

We dont hunt geese here, only specific regions under specific conditions. its mostly mallard.

I though the same thing re homeloading and asked a few guys who do. Answer was universally a bad time to be starting, powders hard to come by [note fast steel loads].
But something I could move too now I have finally learned [at 50 plus] to stop pushing my luck and in essence being selective with tides moons and dates etc.

 

[Karhumies]

I though the same thing re homeloading and asked a few guys who do. Answer was universally a bad time to be starting, powders hard to come by [note fast steel loads].
But something I could move too now I have finally learned [at 50 plus] to stop pushing my luck and in essence being selective with tides moons and dates etc.

yea, tools arent hard to source but i dont like loading for anything i cant source local ingredients for. Powders and primers etc cant be shipped here and shipping cost can run pretty high in general.

powder 90 per a pound, shot 15 per kilo, wads arent available locally so id have to order bulk to mske shipping worth it, then primers are RWS and about 30 cent a piece right now.

I do think i wang to start loading in the future but right now its just not a good time.

VV has some 42g steel loads listed at standard velocities that look inviting. I am a supporter of the idea that more pellets is better, after adjusting choke to widen the pattern. I like the 89mm shells from the mossberg 835 so mutch because because i get the same coverage over a larger area. Skill is great, and i wish i had more of it and will continue working on it but i dont consider myself a sportsman, i hunt for dinner. If i can use my tools to overcome a skill issue i will happily do so.

First i need to adjust my gun fit a little. I imagine slugs would actually be good for seeing POI? Its a browning, i obviously cant use slugs in the 835

 

[Spartina]

Emm all you want for poi IMO is full choke and a 1oz clay load. 15m or so

Remember here we are not patterning

1. it's about seeing the difference between POA and POI
2. you AIM a rifle , you POINT a shotgun there are minor inaccuracies "built in" as it were.
3. In all your testing try for the safest way to do it. Personally, slugs have their uses, I have used them on sangliar in S France, but they carry a LOT of energy that does NOT dissipate like a cloud of no8 or 9 shot!

 

[Karhumies]

Emm all you want for poi IMO is full choke and a 1oz clay load. 15m or so

Remember here we are not patterning

1. it's about seeing the difference between POA and POI
2. you AIM a rifle , you POINT a shotgun there are minor inaccuracies "built in" as it were.
3. In all your testing try for the safest way to do it. Personally, slugs have their uses, I have used them on sangliar in S France, but they carry a LOT of energy that does NOT dissipate like a cloud of no8 or 9 shot!

I guess that could work too. I use alot of slugs in general, got boxes of them. If distance allows it i prefer them over my rifles sometimes. A 12/76 40g slug seems to kill faster with mutch less bruising and bone splintering. Actually makes me consider a 45/70 or similar velocity big bullet.

Killed my first few deer with 12/65 slugs from a Husqvarna double barrel. The residual energy really isnt a concern at my range tho

 

[sir-lamp-alot]

Is this a new gun to you and does it actually fit you? Im sure I dont need to tell you but if the gun aint pointing where you looking its a no starter from the word go. Secondly for ducks out to 50 yards which in fairness is a long way you are not going to need a super full choke Ive shot ducks at these ranges and pheasants a little furher with steel 3's with just a 1/2 choke

 

[Karhumies]

Is this a new gun to you and does it actually fit you? Im sure I dont need to tell you but if the gun aint pointing where you looking its a no starter from the word go. Secondly for ducks out to 50 yards which in fairness is a long way you are not going to need a super full choke Ive shot ducks at these ranges and pheasants a little furher with steel 3's with just a 1/2 choke

Its a new gun. It seems to work fine standing in a field but sitting in a kayak i cant hit anything it seems.

30-50m is simply the range at wich i actually see the ducks. They wont decoy and have been shot at too mutch to even consider getting close to the shoreline. They spend 90% of their time deep in the swamp where other hunters dont usually go and are absolutely paranoid. They hear a little wave splash my kayak or and they flush into the air 30 to 50m ahead of me. Iam only still doing it because i lost all other hunting opportunities for this season and have nothing better to do.

 

[Smellydog]

Its a new gun. It seems to work fine standing in a field but sitting in a kayak i cant hit anything it seems.

With all due respect it sounds very much like you think you aim a shotgun like you would a rifle.
You can with slugs yes but on flying birds, no!
That's why it must fit. Your eye is the rear sight, if the gun doesn't fit the rear sight, your eye, will be in the wrong place and on a fast bird you will not have time to adjust the rear sight, your eye!

The way I test for fit is to close my eyes and mount the gun as though I was swinging on an imaginary bird. Then I stop and open my eyes. If the gun fits when I open my eyes the correct eye and dominant eye will be over the center of the rib and seeing a little of the top of the rib.

I repeat the process until convinced it fits or otherwise. If not I put it back in the rack unless it looks easy enough to adjust, like most pump actions and automatics.

 

[Karhumies]

With all due respect it sounds very much like you think you aim a shotgun like you would a rifle.
You can with slugs yes but on flying birds, no!
That's why it must fit. Your eye is the rear sight, if the gun doesn't fit the rear sight, your eye, will be in the wrong place and on a fast bird you will not have time to adjust the rear sight, your eye!

The way I test for fit is to close my eyes and mount the gun as though I was swinging on an imaginary bird. Then I stop and open my eyes. If the gun fits when I open my eyes the correct eye and dominant eye will be over the center of the rib and seeing a little of the top of the rib.

I repeat the process until convinced it fits or otherwise. If not I put it back in the rack unless it looks easy enough to adjust, like most pump actions and automatics.

I know how a shotgun works. i started off with a SxS long before i owned a rifle. I hit plenty of hare, grouse and pigeon. I didnt aim those slugs either. i just fired at paper until they went where i wanted them. Deer pops out i focus on the spot and fire. I shoot my bow the same way.

But in my kayak it doesnt seem to be as simple. So i might need to adjust the gun or try a more open choke to compensate? Can you just grab a field gun and sit cross legged in a boat and hit clays the same way as standing? actual question.

 

[Smellydog]

I know how a shotgun works. i started off with a SxS long before i owned a rifle. I hit plenty of hare, grouse and pigeon. I didnt aim those slugs either. i just fired at paper until they went where i wanted them. Deer pops out i focus on the spot and fire. I shoot my bow the same way.

But in my kayak it doesnt seem to be as simple. So i might need to adjust the gun or try a more open choke to compensate? Can you just grab a field gun and sit cross legged in a boat and hit clays the same way as standing? actual question.

Never tried it no but have shot not stood up lots.