Certificate fees: a fair price for a fair service. BASC statement.

Simon Clarke

Member
Official Member
Certificate fees: a fair price for a fair service. Firearm and shotgun certificate holders and applicants should pay a fair price for a fair service, according to the UK’s largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC). The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has submitted a proposal to the Government to increase certificate fees from £50 to £94. The last revision of fees took place in 2001. BASC recognises that some costs will have increased but believes there are still efficiency savings and service improvements which can be made by the police, some with no cost attached. BASC also recognises that Chief Constable Andy Marsh, the ACPO lead on firearms licensing is committing time, effort and resources to make improvements. However, the licensing system is currently patchy at best, with significant differences in delivery across different police forces and long delays in some areas. Bill Harriman, BASC director of firearms said: “BASC’s specialist firearms team handles more than 500 calls every month from people who are trying to negotiate their way through the system. This puts us in a unique position to be able to assess how firearms licensing is operating across the UK. Service delivery is inconsistent. Some police forces produce long and unacceptable delays in the process. We are seeing improvements in some areas, but not in all. The police have official Home Office guidance which should be setting consistent standards, but our experience shows that in practice, this is far from the case. Certificate holders should pay a fair price for a fair service and BASC wishes to see that fair service put in place. Neither certificate holders nor the taxpayer should have to pay for inefficiency. BASC is talking to the police and to the Government and discussions are on-going.”
 

bogtrotter

Well-Known Member
Fair price for a fair service sounds like a good idea, and an increase from £50 to £94 does sound very fair considering how long they have been at £50

I did read somewhere that the true cost to the police is around £250 per certificate and allowing that some of that
​cost may be met by our council tax which pays for the police, I still think £94 sounds very fair.
 

stalker.308

Well-Known Member
What are the proposed costs of a variation likely to be?

Of course not all variations are the same, a new FAC holder putting in a variation is likely to take a long time and require a FEO visit but an experienced firearms holder it is just proving the need on paper and often does not involve a visit from an FEO....
 

Tomm

Well-Known Member
i would rather pay more for my certificate and variations if the time it takes them to process variations and condition changes etc was reduced accordingley. at the moment down here you have to wair arounf 4-6 weeks for a 1to1 variation.
 

perdix

Well-Known Member
Totally agree with all the above.
I'm actually relieved that the price quoted is not as high as I first feared but I do think that the service has got to be improved in some areas.
Does anyone know if there will still be the usual reductions for co-terminus certificates?
 

Virbius

Well-Known Member
What are the proposed costs of a variation likely to be?

Of course not all variations are the same, a new FAC holder putting in a variation is likely to take a long time and require a FEO visit but an experienced firearms holder it is just proving the need on paper and often does not involve a visit from an FEO....
That brings in subjectivity yet again and would cause more delays. How do you define an 'experienced' FAC holder - one who has held FAC for 5 years and used it once a year or held for 1 year and used very week, and all combinations in between?

Consistency is required across the board and across all licensing authorities to elliminate the above. I have dealt with Norfolk Firearms and Grampian Firearms and have nothing but praise in terms of efficiency, courtesey and timeliness. I would happily pay more for that service.
 

Apache

Well-Known Member
Still very good value for money.

Personally I fear consistency as North Yorkshire Police seem very good, fairly quick and treat us shooters as grownups. If we were all treated the same I fear we would all fall to the lowest common denominator rather than the best, most efficient service.
 

perdix

Well-Known Member
Some quite shocking figures there!
I do rather object to some of the statistics(its costs x pence per day) as this sounds like we are getting something for nothing.
It would be interesting to see what a driving license works out at too or would that be too negative for their argument? :stir: And don't forget in the wrong hands they are a dangerous weapon,vehicles have more impact on the enviroment and I don't have to justify my need for a driving license every 5 years.
With the prices quoted I hope that the £90-ish figure is considered adequate and they settle around that figure if the price needs to rise.
 

Apache

Well-Known Member
I don't think £150 is an unreasonable amount for a FAC. I do think £25 is a lot for a 1 for 1 variation, for 10 seconds of typing and re-printing a cert.
 

Labrat

Well-Known Member
It would of course be interesting if there were some FOI requests that showed other counties costing for the same things

I'd be willing to bet we would see some significant disparities between police forces :-|


[video=youtube;7R7cmZaF-0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7cmZaF-0c[/video]
 
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Moray Outfitting

Well-Known Member
Said it before and saying it again - represents a fantastic opportunity to negotiate/ petition for fundamental reforms . If we accept a ' at cost' rise now on the basis of efficiently administering a fundamentally flawed system, we've nowhere to go in the future.

Many 'givens' of the current firearms situation in the UK are actually merely oft repeated ( and unchallenged ) myths/wishes etc that receive factual status simply through repetition.

Bottom line for firearms legislation - 1. to restrict criminal use ( criminal in common sense phrase, not deeming a person holding 51 rounds of 22LR against an authorised 50 as a major threat to society ), 2. facilitate legitimate use of firearms, 3. Prevent access to firearms by the mentally unsuitable.

Whilst we worry about .002" calibre differences, 100fps velocity difference, whether you shoot a fox, a deer a boar, a rabbit, a target, etc etc etc any system is going to cost a fortune and not particularly serve the bottom line aims above.

Whether such a change would happen is arguable, but I believe strongly we should be pressing as individuals and through our organisations for a root and branch reappraisal whilst the door is open.

 

Virbius

Well-Known Member
The online system that is being piloted in 4 regions is a good step forward for efficiency improvements.
 

I. Farticus

Well-Known Member
£94 would get me about 340 miles in my Jeep - Less than enough for Devon & back or Cumbria & back to stalk, forget the cost of a carcass...

£94 would get me a morning on Century (factoring in fuel, lane and ammo)...

£94 over 5 years is 7% of my Road Fund Licence for that period...

£94 over 5 years is 13% of my TV licence for that period...

£94 over 5 years is 5p per day...

£94 for cost of my FAC is just not worth worrying about compared to everything else that I have to pay for in shooting - let alone swimming, football, kick boxing and ballet lessons for 3 kids!!!

I don't know if a few quid more will do anything to the great service I already get from TVP, so can't even complain about that.

Now, this is me and my circumstances, not you and yours, so all of the above is only relevant to me, not you.

Cheers
iain
 
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1066kieran

Well-Known Member
And what is supplied for a road fund license iani and what is supplied for your tv license?

Your fac or sgc is supplied so you can purchase guns and ammunition and carry out a lawful activity though we aren't supplied anywhere to carry it out.

Kieran
 

paul o'

Well-Known Member
sounds like a done deal then subs are going up ! me, you or we can never stop them charging what thay like ! you shoot you pay? come fellers this is rip off uk thay have us all by the bolx ,the best you can hope is that someone makes a deal for us :eek: like :-|! . if it went to 150 pounds who of you would say thats it i'am never gonner hold a fac/sg cert again!! and pack up,( add tumble weed sounds here ) .don't get me wrong i love the land i live in but i fear my goverment not to play the same tune as we would like it to and elected them to do :eek:! we the shooter are a soft target for any flack and easy funds, just like anyone who drives a car ,not wearing a seat belt up 60 to 100, tailgateing 100 agree to this one should be a grand ! ,useing the center lane to long on a motorway 100 ! bloody hard to say on a 4/5 lane motorway , but i would say stop giveing away cash to all the ***** who expect a free hand out around the world 1st move closer to the well !!and boil the water :doh: and then see what is left in the coffers after that little ajustment to our cash strapped goverment :doh: pull our fine boy and girls out of a **** storm that will and can never be solved !
rant over .kick the cat and take chill pill on way.
:old:
 

Moray Outfitting

Well-Known Member
Yep - that's just it isn't it. Those that 'need' CCW, 338 Lapua, 50 Cal for foxing, demand that only HE/AP rounds are suitable and so on and it all dies on the vine.

Meantime the ability to hold a reasonable quantity of ammunition, swap your 243 for a 257 Roberts without a major exercise, possibly carry your lock blade multitool without fear of losing your liberty, solvency, home etc all the sensible stuff that would help the system to work - becomes the stuff of wishful thinking. :rolleyes:
 

Virbius

Well-Known Member
Whatever happens there will always be people who moan. If the FAC/SGC cost reduced someone would still find something to moan about - people would moan that they got an even worse service from the licensing departments because the revenue was lower!

If things are so bad here, there are 26 other member states in the European Union where people are free to go, and that's without looking further afield.


:british:
 

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