CF variation help

#21
Never taken this approach and never had an issue. I always ensure forms are fully compliant and I give them exactly what they ask for. And if applying for a second slot of the same calibre then I’d include details of why I needed a second rifle “the same” under good reason. I’ve always been polite and professional, never indignant or entitled.

In my job, I wouldn’t thank anyone for providing me a load of stuff I’d not asked for, that I had to wade through to get to what I needed.

That's fine if it works
In my job I come across people every week who have been turned down or asked to provide additional info for a variation
in my experience once the FEO starts asking additional questions the likelihood of rejection is much higher

If you are applying for vanilla calibres and quantities with suitable experience and history things tend to go smoothly.
Ask for multiples of a cartridge, unusual/large calibres, large quantities or have no history or experience? expect hard questions if you didn't provide all the info up front.

I have never had a knock back either with my approach and I have at any one time held authority to acquire or hold:
4x.22lr, 17m2, 17HMR, 22WMR, 2x222, 243/6mmBR, 3x 270, 300wm, .308, 9.3x62, 338LM and a .22 HD pistol
 
#22
Hey,
What I have always done with variations is start with a phone call to my FEO.
Go over what I want and why. Then if they need anything from you they will let you know then so you can send everything in one go.
It’s always made things very smooth for me.
Very good advice ask your FEO what they want, and give it to them, it may be worthwhile letting them know you have checked up on home office guidance, and you are checking with them to see if they need anything extra, that way they should not go daft on what they want
Cheers
Ray
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
#23
At renewal time, my FEO is very much of the "are you sure there isn't anything else you need?" variety. Obviously, public safety is his number-one concern, but customer-service (yes, really!) comes a close second. A spell in the army, a career as a police officer, then a retirement job as an FEO means he has seen the world a bit and so is less hide-bound than some that one hears about.

In terms of what I give him, I like to put myself in his shoes and try and think about what he would need to have in his file in order to prove to his boss (or, God forbid, a court) that he has conducted a thorough risk-assessment and has discharged his duty to the general public. Therefore, any proof of my experience and competence can only help him, any evidence of my security arrangements (monitored alarm, etc.) can only help him, any evidence of good reason...etc. However, over time, I have found that I need to provide less and less, partly because of listening to what he actually needs, but also partly because each of our files presumably eventually gets to the point that we're 'well over the line' on the competence/experience question?

Kind regards,

Carl
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
#24
I think to be honest, I'd not mention the foxes attacking the cows in your application, or when speaking to the FEO. It may well be true, perhaps a really hungry fox chanced it's luck, who am I to say? But I'd word it along the lines of fox control to protect livestock and leave it there. Or you might give him the impression you are telling porkies. Which isn't recommended.
 

FGYT

Well-Known Member
#25
you have a FAC ??? with something on it what are you asking for to be added

a bigger calibre ??
Fox variation for existing rifle as its not AOLQ ??

clearance for New land (which isnt a variation )
 

Whitebeard

Well-Known Member
#26
I would say that a permission letter from the land owner/shooting rights holder, is a must.
Certainly in my area, you are not going to get anywhere with the police without one. Even paid stalks and DSC qualifications are dismissed here.
Same in Northants
Ian
 
#27
This is exactly what I've just done, I've had a FAC for 20+years with rimfire and .223 with only ever written permission on one bit of land, about 15 acres.
Over christmas I spoke to my FEO and explained that I wanted to upgrade to a .243 for stalking. The conversation started to go the wrong way towards using estate rifles.....
I then turned it around by saying that I only want one rifle for both fox and deer, being left handed, estate rifles will be limiting and also reloading fox and deer rounds.
Oh.... ok he says
I then also state that by only having the .243, I still want to use it over my current permission as well as paid for stalking, but had heard a rumor that it wasn't cleared for .243.
OK, you will need it on an open ticket then he says.
Long story short, I've just been granted a .243 and 6.5mm slots, open ticket with the only written permission being cleared for .22 rimfire!

Its all about being open and honest, not being silly and ask for what you need, not what you would like
You've had your FAC for 20+ years and they've only just opened it? Crikey!! Mine was opened for everything up to 6.5 in 18 months!
 
#28
That's fine if it works
In my job I come across people every week who have been turned down or asked to provide additional info for a variation
in my experience once the FEO starts asking additional questions the likelihood of rejection is much higher

If you are applying for vanilla calibres and quantities with suitable experience and history things tend to go smoothly.
Ask for multiples of a cartridge, unusual/large calibres, large quantities or have no history or experience? expect hard questions if you didn't provide all the info up front.

I have never had a knock back either with my approach and I have at any one time held authority to acquire or hold:
4x.22lr, 17m2, 17HMR, 22WMR, 2x222, 243/6mmBR, 3x 270, 300wm, .308, 9.3x62, 338LM and a .22 HD pistol
Have to disagree here Ed.

I don't have vanilla calibres particularly, for example .357 and sect. 1 12b conditioned for vermin, I don't really feel the need to list all the calibre I have but its a few. I actually reduced my quantities at renewal as I found I didn't have time to load 8/900 of each of the CFs I hold. I've never given chapter and verse as you set out in your first post for a variation. If I find I have the need for something new I get in touch with the fld, explain the reason and then follow it up with the variation form. I don't follow it on with waffle about bullet choice and that sort of thing because it's not needed.

At the end of the day the OP has his FAC so they know that he knows about the safety aspect, he just needs to explain why he needs the new calibre. (insert suitable CF here) for fox control at XX Farm, permission letter enclosed or contact details for farmer are YY. Job done (provided cows aren't mentioned ).
 
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Andyquadra

Well-Known Member
#29
You've had your FAC for 20+ years and they've only just opened it? Crikey!! Mine was opened for everything up to 6.5 in 18 months!
In 2006, it was open, and the feo at the time said 'we don't do it like that anymore'.
Seeing as I didn't really get the chance to shoot anywhere else, it didn't bother me.
Speaking to my current feo in the week, when talking about opening it up, he pointed out to me that it already was! So in all honesty, I don't know how long it's been open
 

Uncle Buck

Well-Known Member
#30
Are you sure? Adult cattle attacked by foxes? I farm sheep and have never even known a ewe be attacked, never mind a cow! Perhaps any cattle farmers on here will correct me?

Kind regards,

Carl
Now that would be a sight to see a...Charlie going head to head with a Texel !
No contest....:)

Buck.
 

rms364

Well-Known Member
#31
At renewal time, my FEO is very much of the "are you sure there isn't anything else you need?" variety. Obviously, public safety is his number-one concern, but customer-service (yes, really!) comes a close second. A spell in the army, a career as a police officer, then a retirement job as an FEO means he has seen the world a bit and so is less hide-bound than some that one hears about.

In terms of what I give him, I like to put myself in his shoes and try and think about what he would need to have in his file in order to prove to his boss (or, God forbid, a court) that he has conducted a thorough risk-assessment and has discharged his duty to the general public. Therefore, any proof of my experience and competence can only help him, any evidence of my security arrangements (monitored alarm, etc.) can only help him, any evidence of good reason...etc. However, over time, I have found that I need to provide less and less, partly because of listening to what he actually needs, but also partly because each of our files presumably eventually gets to the point that we're 'well over the line' on the competence/experience question?

Kind regards,

Carl
You must have the same FEO as me!! Just had a variation granted and he couldn’t of been more helpful. Didn’t quite have all I asked for but he suggested a compromise for the time being which I can easily work with. My mate is just about to renew and he’s after a variation too but unfortunately he’s under Gloucestershire and they seem a bit more finicky.....


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