Pretty much the same disease as BSE in cattle, which was supposed to be the end of the World. Won't see any more spread to humans that we did with BSE. Tragic for the few but there were very very few.
Chronic Wasting Disease
- Thread starter Budgie Smuggler
- Start date
It can spread from deer to deer via body fluids etc, so encouraging deer to live at high densities through artificial feeding will hasten spread. Also, deer will often chew on the remains of other (dead) deer and antlers, which is another route of infection (identical to your example of the calf fed on suspect feed which most likely contained infected animal remains).
It's the same type of disease as BSE, but it is not the same disease. Like scrapie in sheep. There was a lot of panic about possible links between the disease in sheep and the disease in cattle, and a vast effort was made to breed strains of sheep that were naturally resistant to scrapie. It was subsequently shown that the link was tenuous or non-existent, but the money poured into the genetics program wasn't wasted as incidence of scrapie in sheep is now very low in the UK, which is a big plus for animal health and welfare.
Incidentally, I know (knew) someone who died of nvCJD. It was awful.
Given that BSE panic brought the British beef industry to its knees, if CWD gets into the UK it'll probably end stalking as we know it.
Can’t remember the documentary but it was shocking …. Basic premise was that the prions in brain can lie dormant for near 40/50 yrs then come “ alive “ and infect … goes back to studies of I think papa New Guinea head hunters & cannabilism
There are still cases pop out the groundwork and still classed as a ticking timebomb …. I believe Uk citizens still not allowed to Donate blood in Europe ?
Anybody else remember documentary ? Was 4 / 5 years ago ?
Paul
Deermanagement
Well-Known Member
Deermanagement
Well-Known Member
It will. There'll be no outlet for wild venison, there will be fewer shot and the gov will get involved and culling along Scottish lines will be the order of the day with carcasses requiring incineration
I have and know of Norwegian visitors that come to the UK and these along with anyone from outside the UK should have any equipment that could carry CWD disinfected.
If that scenario played out, what will stalking leases be worth? And who would want to become a "professional" deer killer rather than a deer stalker. Some will of course, many who will be very unprofessional, but it would certainly be a change that will be disastrous for deer and fieldsports people.
Stalking lease will still be sought after. People that stalk and know the countryside have (mostly) more sense than get caught up in the hypeIt will. There'll be no outlet for wild venison, there will be fewer shot and the gov will get involved and culling along Scottish lines will be the order of the day with carcasses requiring incineration
I have and know of Norwegian visitors that come to the UK and these along with anyone from outside the UK should have any equipment that could carry CWD disinfected.
If that scenario played out, what will stalking leases be worth? And who would want to become a "professional" deer killer rather than a deer stalker. Some will of course, many who will be very unprofessional, but it would certainly be a change that will be disastrous for deer and fieldsports people.
It matters not that people who know the countryside may not get caught up in the hype. If the government and the public get caught up in the hype (which they will) then all matters pertaining to deer management will be taken out of stalkers hands through legislation.
It doesn't bear thinking about.
I doubt there is a disinfectant that would kill it if radiation won't.
It's part of the intriguing study of the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. The classic BSE that cause so much of a problem in the mid 1990s was transmitted through infected feed. Scrapie (sheep) known about far longer than BSE, is spread through direct contact with animal fluids (and isn't the cause of BSE). CWD would seem to be more similar to scrapie in being transmitted by direct contact, so feeding stations are a bad idea.
Feeding stations are a bad idea. End of!
Mucus?
Yes.
How and why they vary I cannot tell you. Prion proteins are normal parts of cell function - many speculated roles. The disease prions are mis-folded ones, why, I'm not sure. The nuisance is that as most means of disinfection involves changing a protein's shape (heat, chemicals) the fact that they are already misfolded makes it hard to remove them properly. Why some remain in the nervous tissue (BSE) and others get excreted I really can't tell you - it's a level of cell biology currently beyond my ken (and time, frankly, I'm concentrating on other complex areas like reloading...)
J@son
Well-Known Member
Resurrecting this old thread with another article - also in the Guardian - on the same topic:
www.theguardian.com
‘Don’t call it zombie deer disease’: scientists warn of ‘global crisis’ as infections spread across the US
The contagious, fatal illness in deer, elk and moose must be taken seriously, say experts as it takes hold in the US and reaches other countries. While it has not infected humans yet, the risk is growing
www.theguardian.com
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
The animal requires copper in trace form for the prions to function normally; where this is absent or prevented from uptake, by eg use of organophosphate based pour ons ( administered along the spine and getting into the spinal cord, as one may observe) and where the copper molecule is replaced by a molybdenum one, the misfiolding occurs.
Disclaimer, I’m not a vet, though neither was Mark Purdy, the small scale farmer who researched this aspect a little and brought it to the attention of others. It’s a chemical world. Proteins in chicken food are often derived from dead chickens, same with cattle supplemental food at the time of the outbreak, more greed than anything. In NE Scotland the grass grows so fast in summer the cattle cannot keep up, but the oft show example of BSE infected and distressed animal was one of a dairy cow ( high density) living on relatively intensively cropped grazing ( Devon small acreage dairy unit) which was mature (- had several years of pour on administered) and was fed on supplemental rations (made with knackered old other stock of similar type and fed toxic feed whilst being poured on every year too). The means of the body dealing with such persistent toxins is to encapsulate them in fat
(it’s of course all ‘muscle’ on yourself, I know 
), these fats were stripped from the carcasses and sent to the feed producers, and of course not sufficiently sterilised (an impossibility, given the knowledge that prions can persist even on autoclaved surgical instruments) and the feed them given to the cattle. No means of any mature animal avoiding a double or multiple dose of the organophosphate poison.The classic symptoms associated with organophosphate poisoning/overdosage in all mammals is spongiform encephalopathy.
CWD has been found in Scandinavian reindeer herds also. The link is likely as not to being the supplementary food ration (which comes in a bag and off a pallet as opposed to in a bale from a field) offered, as any natural cause pathway.
Deer in many highland estates are fed silage and chopped neep or bulk carrots, but tend not to get fed from bags from feed manufacturers.
A neighbour of old and since passed used to be a rep for a major UK animal feed manufacturer.
We reap what we sow.
The article above makes for pretty alarming reading. Given how much CWD has spread in the US, and how transmissable it seems to be, you would really hope that there would be some government action now to actively try to prevent the spread of it here, whether that involves sterilising footwear upon entry into the UK of anyone who's been in rural US, or some other measure/s. We've seen far too many diseases, from Dutch Elm Disease onwards, introduced into this country with devastating effects. As soon as it's detected here, as @VSS said earlier in the thread, the UK venison market will completely collapse, irrespective of any actual threat to human health, as the public will simply stop buying it.
Not knowing what else to do, I've written to my MP and the BDS, and would urge others to act also.
Not knowing what else to do, I've written to my MP and the BDS, and would urge others to act also.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
And it hangs around for a long time.
The precise role of copper in prions isn't certain but it is currently assumed the normal prion protein has a role in cellular uptake of copper and zinc. There are conflicting experiments to suggest that copper promotes or inhibits the formation of the abnormal prion.
I've not really found anything on molybdenum, other than abnormal prions bind to molybdenum in steel instruments (creating disinfection problems) and the ability of molybdenum to affect copper absorption from the diet. The role of OPs has been largely discounted
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
‘The role of OPs has been largely discounted’
Really?
Wonder why it is that the spinal column is no longer left in the food chain, and why meat sold in the U.K. is from cattle which have only been dosed with OP just the once; the shepherds who used to use OP to dip sheep might have their view on your statement too, one might well imagine.
Never been a recorded case of BSE in organically reared cattle either.
Sweetening ground with lime also inhibits copper uptake, which is partly why copper rich mineral blocks were such a boon for deer in areas where the land had been ‘improved’ for provision of better grazing on some of the Estates I have dealt with.
I met and discussed matters of this topic with the man (a professor) who developed the market leading mineral block used in Europe; his buddy ‘coincidentally’ shot the then world record roe buck whilst they were developing testing his blocks on his hunting area.
Chromium at 2ppm is also more beneficial than its absence, although EU legislation has banned its inclusion. That said, a combination of trace elemental compounds at very specific levels make all the difference to overall health to both lactating and pregnant females, and the improvement in overall health is all (unsurprisingly) all the more marked in areas of trace element deficiency.
Really?
Wonder why it is that the spinal column is no longer left in the food chain, and why meat sold in the U.K. is from cattle which have only been dosed with OP just the once; the shepherds who used to use OP to dip sheep might have their view on your statement too, one might well imagine.
Never been a recorded case of BSE in organically reared cattle either.
Sweetening ground with lime also inhibits copper uptake, which is partly why copper rich mineral blocks were such a boon for deer in areas where the land had been ‘improved’ for provision of better grazing on some of the Estates I have dealt with.
I met and discussed matters of this topic with the man (a professor) who developed the market leading mineral block used in Europe; his buddy ‘coincidentally’ shot the then world record roe buck whilst they were developing testing his blocks on his hunting area.
Chromium at 2ppm is also more beneficial than its absence, although EU legislation has banned its inclusion. That said, a combination of trace elemental compounds at very specific levels make all the difference to overall health to both lactating and pregnant females, and the improvement in overall health is all (unsurprisingly) all the more marked in areas of trace element deficiency.
Where does that bit of info come from, please? I wasn't aware of it, and as a cattle keeper it's the sort of thing I ought to know. I'd like to read up on it, and bring myself up-to-date.
I tried googling "Youngs Poron 20", one of the products that has been used as an insecticide on cattle and which I believe contains op, just to see if there had been any change in authorisation for it's use, but the results of my search weren't what I was expecting, and were "interesting" to say the least.
Now I'm going to delete my search history
