CO2 (fun) pistol suggestions for 10m

[bakereloadprune]

Hi all, looking for some helpful advice and suggestions, if available. Being a member of an indoor smallbore club for the past 4+ years I've been fortunate to try out a number of different disciples. Right now I'm primary shooting 20m benchrest and also sporting (NSRA pl14s) rifles. A few shoot 10m pistol comps but it's not really my thing, nor going back for 22 long barrelled variation.

I'm looking to interject some fun of a non competition sort back into my weekly trips to club, where we also have a 10m range with paired turning targets. Membership is declining and everything is getting a bit same-y wwek on week. I'm thinking of getting a CO2 pistol but lost a little on YouTube and other forums...normally I find here has a number of insightful threads...but alas I can't find much. Hopefully there are some directory members with some (helpful or otherwise) ideas or similar club experiences.

What "fun" CO2 pistols would you potentially suggest? Some additional info/background that might help maybe:

- needs to be pellet, don't want those copper bbs all over the ranges, and perhaps mildly more "accurate" though I'm not going for a serious angle here
- doesn't/don't want a competition pistol, we have enough hammerlis, styers, morinis etc for the more traditional 10m disciplines, I want to perhaps have some (safe) fun with the turning targets
- we've got a lot of cp88s also, following the pistol ban, so I want something different
- budget: £100-300 new
- here's potentially the contentious one: I've thought and leaning quite heavily on a blowback, despite the gimmick, lack of accuracy and potentially "less serious nature" of plinking with one...whenever I've shot them, they have put a big smile on my face...unfortunately few and far between opportunities!

So far my shortlist is basically one of the recent glocks (gen5) with a reportedly not great belt fed mag and heavy trigger, or one of the plethora of sig pistols that look a bit unwealdly. I do like the umarex licensed pistols that seem to have that weight and quality feel. At the same time I don't want to drop 2-300 and end up questioning why I didn't get a cp88 like everyone else!

Any suggestions greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!

 

[The Grouse]

As soon as I read the title my brain said CP88, until I read further

When I was still part of the local air gun club we had some timed plate shooting, all rigged up by one of the more technically proficient members with automated timers and sensors. Was a lot of fun and created a very competitive but fun atmosphere.

I used a CP88 Comp, which I still have tucked away in the back of a cupboard. As you well know they are excellent.

Honestly the only other pistols that came close to the likes of the CP88 where other Umarex licenced pistols like the 92FS. The blowbacks are fun ( also have a glock 19 BB ) but they use more CO2 per shot and if you're being vaguely competitive you're handicaping yourself from the outset.

 

[bakereloadprune]

Thanks! The fact that blowbacks are greedy for gas didn't even cross my mind but makes total sense. Another point to consider...

Our turning targets have a dedicated controller with exposure times etc, which presents some fun opportunities...covid closures and drop in fun shoots at the club have taken its toll recently on venturing onto anything that's not postal league.

The 92fs is also a really good shout. I don't/didn't want this to turn into an emotive (and very personal) "what's the best X" thread but personal experience, especially of similar club setups is very helpful as im limited to just what i see at my club...Moreover the underused ranges makes me sad and I want to bring something different to the club, given there will be little pushback! Cp88s have a good and long following...probably I shouldn't discount it as an option so quickly either...though I'll probably stay clear of the used/auction ones for now.

 

[enfieldspares]

Hello. I have two. The latest acquisition is a Swiss Arms Colt 1911A1. I have also, before the Tory handgun ban, owned and used two Colt 1911s (one made in 1913 the other in 1917), a Colt .38 Super 1911A1 Super Match and a Remington-Rand 1911A1. Plus a Colt .22-.45 Conversion KIt.

My thoughts are this. I have not attempted, of course to strip the thing as I imagine that the internals are very very different so I have left well alone. But I can advise that the thumb safety works as it does on the original. The grip safety works as it does on the original. That magazine release ditto. The pistol blows back as did the genuine ones and it does indeed make a "bang". I shot my 1911s and 1911A1s a lot and can say that the blow back does give a similar recoil sensation. And locks back when the magazine is empty.

Accuracy at six yards is good and the gun...or at least the one that I have...shoots to point of aim and groups at six yards into three inches. They are a quality item with the feel of an original. What are a sack of cack are the ones with the rotary monkey metal magazone where the rear half of the slide only blows back.

Hope it helps. I forget what version of SIG the other one is but I'll get it out and have a look. It also is accurate and shoots to point of aim.

 

[enfieldspares]

This is the Swiss Arms 1911A1 that I have. There's no nonsense of coloured dots on the safety catch (on mine) nor triggers on a pivot with a false straight through trigger stuck on top. Yes they use C02 but no more nor less cost than a box of fifty .22LR. I am teaching my ten year old with both the Colt and the SIG. In each I load in BBs what the true round count in the magazine would be in the real version. So 7+1 and 15+1.

The question you have to ask is what is the purpose you want to achieve. If substitute precision target pistol shooting them get a high end air pistol like a Feinwerkbau. If you want to however simulate as near as possible what shooting a real Colt 1911A1 or SIG would be like if they were still lawful to own get one of these Swiss Arms pistols. The Umarex IMHO are neither the one nor the other. Poor substitutes for a target pistol, poor substitutes for a real pistol.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I still have a Blaser slide replacement .177 unit for a real 1911 frame that spits gas by using the original 1911s hammer drop. Sadly I do not have a 1911 anymore after the 1997 fiasco. It was accurate though.

 

[bakereloadprune]

Thanks @enfieldspares - I think the purpose is to primarily have some fun with something less clinical than a match pistol. The Swiss Arms looks great, albeit it is a BB, so would need to use those copper coated lead BBs for our indoor range. Question is, will they have the power to get repeatedly (semi)accurate on target at 10m? I see there is a "spin up action" version of the Swiss Arms 1911 that should give it more accuracy.

On a side note, I found an old "Dueling Pistols" controller on a shelf last night, still in full working order with two light control boxes (green, orange, red) and two microphones that pic up the shot noise. Definitely something more suited to have fun with a blowback pistol rather than match - but need to play about with it to see if its going to pick up air rather than the original centre-fire pistols I think it was designed for. Will have a go with it soon!

Appreciate the comments, thanks again!

 

[jthyttin]

How about airsoft? I think they're quite comparable to BB guns in accuracy (or better) and the plastic "bullets" can be contained in e.g. XPS foam target backers. Pistol cost is similar, but I'd imagine they're cheaper to run than BB. You're using large propane (actually I think it's butane) bottles and recharge the magazines every once in a while.

Some time ago I purchased Umarex Glock 17 Gen5, goal being to ramp up my training with real pistols. Surprise surprise, not happened yet but the gun follows the dimensions etc. quite strictly so works well with real holsters, and the manipulation is close enough to real Glock (trigger, mag catch etc, obviously the slide is "too easy" to rack). After few dozen shots I'm quite confident I can keep 5cm grouping @10m in slow fire (actually all my tests I shot tighter but I have no illusion it being the norm with so many variables in the gun/ammo).

 

[enfieldspares]

Thanks @enfieldspares - I think the purpose is to primarily have some fun with something less clinical than a match pistol. The Swiss Arms looks great, albeit it is a BB, so would need to use those copper coated lead BBs for our indoor range. Question is, will they have the power to get repeatedly (semi)accurate on target at 10m? I see there is a "spin up action" version of the Swiss Arms 1911 that should give it more accuracy.

On a side note, I found an old "Dueling Pistols" controller on a shelf last night, still in full working order with two light control boxes (green, orange, red) and two microphones that pic up the shot noise. Definitely something more suited to have fun with a blowback pistol rather than match - but need to play about with it to see if its going to pick up air rather than the original centre-fire pistols I think it was designed for. Will have a go with it soon!

Appreciate the comments, thanks again!I think you'd need to sacrifice a single CO2 cartridge and fire repeated magazines, counting shots, until you reached the power drop shot number and then going forward change out the cartridge before then. Just like with my PCP BSA Scorpion T10 I know I get x number of magazines at full power before I need to recharge.

 

[enfieldspares]

Here is a genuine, authentic, USA Course of Fire for an actual military use of a BB pistol.

FIELD MANUAL NO. 23-35 FM 23-35 HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

Washington, DC, 3 October 1988

COMBAT TRAINING WITH PISTOLS AND REVOLVER

AIR-OPERATED PISTOL .177.

The air-operated pistol is used as a training device to teach the soldier the method of quick fire, to increase confidence in his ability, and to afford him more practice firing.

A range can be set up almost anywhere with a minimum of effort and coordination, which is ideal for U S Army Reserve and National Guard. Due to the light recoil and little noise of the pistol, the soldier can concentrate on fundamentals. This helps build confidence, because the soldier can hit a target faster and accurately.

The air-operated pistol should receive the same respect as any firearm. A thorough explanation of the weapon and a safety briefing are given to each soldier.

QUICK-FIRE TARGET TRAINING DEVICE

The QTTD is used with the .177 air-operated pistol.

PHASE I. From 10 feet, five shots at a 20-foot miniature E-type silhouette. After firing each shot, the firer and coach discuss the results and make corrections.

PHASE II. From 15 feet, five shots at a 20-foot miniature E-type silhouette. The same instructions apply to this exercise as for PHASE I.

PHASE III. From 20 feet, five shots at a 20-foot miniature E-type silhouette. The same instructions apply to this exercise as for PHASES I and II.

PHASE IV. From 15 feet, six shots, at two 20-foot miniature E-type silhouettes.

(1) This exercise is conducted the same as the previous one, except that the firer is introduced to fire distribution. The targets on the QTTD are held in the up position so they cannot be knocked down when hit.

(2) The firer first engages the 20-foot miniature E-type silhouette on the extreme right of the QTTD. He then traverses between targets and engages the same type target on the extreme left of the QTTD. The firer again shifts back to re-engage the first target. The procedure is used to teach the firer to instinctively return to the first target if he misses it with his first shot.

(3) The firer performs this exercise twice, firing three shots each time. Before firing the second time, the coach and firer should discuss the errors made during the first exercise.

PHASE V. Seven shots fired from 20, 15, and 10 feet at miniature E-type silhouettes.

(1) The firer starts this exercise 30 feet from the QTTD . The command, “MOVE OUT”, is given, and the firer steps out at a normal pace with the weapon held in the ready position. Upon the command, “FIRE” (given at the 20-foot line), the firer assumes the crouch position and engages the 20-foot miniature E-type silhouette on the extreme right of the QTTD. He then traverses between targets, engages the same type target on the extreme left of the QTTD, and shifts back to the first target. If the target is still up, he engages it. The firer then assumes the standing position and returns the weapon to the ready position. Upon completion of each exercise, the coach makes correction as the firer returns to the standing position.

(2) On the command, “MOVE OUT”, the firer again steps off at a normal pace. Upon the command, “FIRE” (given at the 15-foot line), he engages the 15-foot targets on the QTTD. The same sequence of fire distribution is followed as with the previous exercise.

(3) During this exercise, the firer moves forward on command, until he reaches the 10-foot line. At the command, FIRE, the firer engages the 10-foot miniature E-type silhouette in the center of the QTTD.

PISTOL READY POSITION

In the pistol-ready position, hold the weapon in the one-hand grip. Hold the upper arm close to the body, and the forearm at about a 45 degree angle, point the weapon toward target center as you move forward.

STANDING POSITION WITHOUT SUPPORT.

Face the target. Place feet a comfortable distance apart, about shoulder width. Extend the firing arm and attain a two-hand grip. The wrist and elbow of the firing arm are locked and pointed toward target center. Keep the body straight with the shoulders slightly forward of the buttocks.

CROUCH POSITION.

Use the crouch position when surprise targets are engaged at close range. Place the body in a forward crouch (boxer's stance) with the knees bent slightly and trunk bent forward from the hips to give faster recovery from recoil. Place the feet naturally in a position that allows another step toward the target. Extend the weapon straight toward the target, and lock the wrist and elbow of the firing arm. It is important to consistently train with this position, since the body will automatically crouch under conditions of stress such as combat. It is also a faster position from which to change direction of fire.

COMBAT MARKSMANSHIP.

The main use of the pistol or revolver is to engage the enemy at close range with quick, accurate fire. In shooting encounters, it is not the first round fired that wins the engagement, but the first accurately fired round. The soldier should use his sights when engaging the enemy, the only exception being if this would place the weapon within arm's reach of the enemy.

 

[ContinShots]

A bit late to this one I know, but I have an Umarex Walther PPQ Match. It's a pellet Co2 pistol and great fun. Fairly accurate for what it is and you get some blow back action for a wee bit more realism. I wouldn't use it in a competition, but it's great fun to use in the garden.

 

[bakereloadprune]

Never too late!

An Update:
Following @enfieldspares 's comments, I randomly saw and bid (for the fun of it) for a Swiss Arms P92 at auction..and won it for the princely sum of £50 with all fees. Great fun, an absolute CO2 gobbler and eating through the copper coated BBs with relative accuracy. I had a bit of a problem with the safety inadvertently turning the pistol into a full-auto monster, which after the quick shock and short-lived fun, realised it was more dangerous and nonsensical than anything else. Watched a few YT videos and took the thing apart to reveal a "thing" near the slide that stopped it going full blast had fallen out. Corrected and back to the fun.

During that digging around for exploded diagrams and guidance on stripping I realised the SA was made by Cybergun and perhaps also relabeled as a KWC M92...there might be some of that with Umarex too, though I'm not sure.

I have an Umarex Walther PPQ March.

I'm not sure about the "march" bit, but we did have some goes at the Umarex PPQ at the club. Great at 6 yards, not so great at the 10M range for us.

All that being said, I think I'm on the hunt for a well looked after CP88...or a punt on the next auction!


Hope everyone else is enjoying their CO2 pew-pews....apologies!

 

[ContinShots]

Never too late!

An Update:
Following @enfieldspares 's comments, I randomly saw and bid (for the fun of it) for a Swiss Arms P92 at auction..and won it for the princely sum of £50 with all fees. Great fun, an absolute CO2 gobbler and eating through the copper coated BBs with relative accuracy. I had a bit of a problem with the safety inadvertently turning the pistol into a full-auto monster, which after the quick shock and short-lived fun, realised it was more dangerous and nonsensical than anything else. Watched a few YT videos and took the thing apart to reveal a "thing" near the slide that stopped it going full blast had fallen out. Corrected and back to the fun.

During that digging around for exploded diagrams and guidance on stripping I realised the SA was made by Cybergun and perhaps also relabeled as a KWC M92...there might be some of that with Umarex too, though I'm not sure.


I'm not sure about the "march" bit, but we did have some goes at the Umarex PPQ at the club. Great at 6 yards, not so great at the 10M range for us.

All that being said, I think I'm on the hunt for a well looked after CP88...or a punt on the next auction!


Hope everyone else is enjoying their CO2 pew-pews....apologies!

Apologies. Spelling mistake. Match!

 

[5MM/.20Man]

For something different how about Glock T4E .43 Cal? Paintball Plastic and Rubberball shooter .
I gather its the closest recoil you will get to shooting the real thing .
I think you may have to be a member of a paint ball club to get on .

 

[gs jon]

cp88 is very good,i use mine for IPAS and home built turning target,if you every feel like a budget single shot for 6yrd or even 10mtr look at the czech made LOV21 for the price they shoot bloody well.
JB

 

[tackb]

i have a blow back glock thats CO2 and uses 177 wadcutters , yes its gas hungry but CO2 bulbs and pellets are not that expensive

it's accurate enough and great fun since the government took my real handguns a few decades ago , still at least all gun crime has been eliminated eh........

anyway , cut some steel plate targets from thin steel like less than 1mm plate and you have yourself simulated plate shooting , use the correct hanging method and they will 'ring' nicely as well

 

[bakereloadprune]

Thanks! I think 177 wadcutters with blowback is certainly the way to go...the Sig M17 (with an oddly long magazine) and Glock Gen5 (sadly without the optic mounts that the BB version has) both fit the bill nicely. Though the belt mags have always been a bit fiddly for me.

At our club, there's been a resurgence of interest in CO2 fun" outside of our league cards. But the drawbacks are going closer to the target (~6m vs the tradition 10m) and having half deformed brass coated led BBs all over the place!

Also, on a side note, I noticed way better performance with the branded umarex CO2 vs the cheapo stuff I got from the 'bay...yes I read loads of posts and threads on the contradictory, but what I see is what I see! Better accuracy and performance - could be down to one of loads of factors beyond just the gas coming out .

Happy plinking all!

 

[gs jon]

Thanks! I think 177 wadcutters with blowback is certainly the way to go...the Sig M17 (with an oddly long magazine) and Glock Gen5 (sadly without the optic mounts that the BB version has) both fit the bill nicely. Though the belt mags have always been a bit fiddly for me.

At our club, there's been a resurgence of interest in CO2 fun" outside of our league cards. But the drawbacks are going closer to the target (~6m vs the tradition 10m) and having half deformed brass coated led BBs all over the place!

Also, on a side note, I noticed way better performance with the branded umarex CO2 vs the cheapo stuff I got from the 'bay...yes I read loads of posts and threads on the contradictory, but what I see is what I see! Better accuracy and performance - could be down to one of loads of factors beyond just the gas coming out .

Happy plinking all!

i'm trying to find a place to set up for IPAS but it seems not as popular with shooters than it was.
JB

 

[bowji john]

I have had a beretta non blow back CO2 in .177 pellet for about 4 years

Single and double action trigger

Quite accurate out to 15m

I use it along side an air arms 510 tactical on our air rifle ranges

We have

A Turning target range of 4 independently controlled target turners - each can be controlled for rate of turn and time of exposure. Target distances vary from 10m to 20m

Additionally we have 2 Jungle lanes - one for rifle and one for pistol

I’ve found the beretta accurate enough to make comps meaningful

 

[Demetrius]

I have one of these:

Aeron Brno B96 .177 Calibre Competition Air Pistol ( SN PW 2671) – Tim Dyson Air Guns

5-shot self loading and great fun..............even killed a rat with it once, at approx 5 metres. (Put some bait down and rested the pistol on a sandbag)

MV is around 480 fps with a fresh CO2 cartridge.

D.