Competition Websites (split from Classifieds)

[AlexD]

Sorry, but on the face of it, your lottery appears to breach the rules set by the Gambling Commission, as well as basic ethical questions are left unanswered.

Your site says you have sold 1483 tickets out of 8349. If you sell 8349 tickets, you rake in £20,789 for prizes worth £8000. Your site suggests that the lottery is not finished until 8349 tickets are sold, but there is a firm draw date and it says no extensions.

Such a lottery is not within the scope of a lottery one can run as a business, on three grounds: it is a lottery for profit, it is over £50 and customers are not on the premises. The Gambling Commission says is " It is illegal to make a profit from customer lotteries. All of the money raised by ticket sales must be used to pay for prizes and any expenses for organising the lottery. Prizes must be under £50 in value."

What happens if you never find enough mugs to buy a ticket paying 250% more than the ticket is worth? You have a firm draw date, but if not enough tickets are sold by the date, do you simply buy all the others yourself so the odds land on your side? If not, your site should make these details clear. No intent of casting aspersions, but transparency is needed to ensure this is legal.

Have you bought any of these tickets? I find it hard to believe there are really 1483 people who want to pay 250% of the value of goods, or a few people have bought a lot of tickets without doing any sums. Even if you do find those with a gambling weakness, it is highly unethical to exploit them in this way (margins are far above a bookie), hence my motivation to ask hard questions. I see nothing wrong with a lottery for the goods at value, but here the lottery is for the goods at a huge markup.

Please tell us, does your lottery meet the rules in Types of lottery you can run without a licence ? If not, do you have a licence?

You could make it legal, possibly, by donating all the proceeds (not just the profit), to charity. If so, what charity have you chosen? We could then applaud you for donating £8k to charity.

 

[The Lucky Hunter]

Keep digging and you will realise two things. 1) We are totally above board and legal 2) the prizes are worth more than £8,000.

We have been doing this for 4 years now and made hundreds of winners. If you don't like it, don't enter.

 

[AlexD]

Keep digging and you will realise two things. 1) We are totally above board and legal 2) the prizes are worth more than £8,000.

We have been doing this for 4 years now and made hundreds of winners. If you don't like it, don't enter.

So you admit to do lotteries as a business, and if you have done this hundreds of times as you state, then if this lottery is an example, you have made millions of pounds profit out of your gambling business. £3mn+ profit is way much better than any sporting RFD I know, or small sporting business: most just break even after salaries and are in business for the love of the trade.
Your lottery states the alternative cash prize is £8,000, and a quick addition of the retail value of the goods minus the expected retailer commission suggests the goods are about the same: they are certainly not £20,789.
No address on your web site, but Companies House says it is 3 Lurganclabby Crescent, Fivemiletown, County Tyrone, United Kingdom, BT75 0TB, which seems to be a grand private residence with a farm shed but I can't see any agri equipment in that shed in the sat pictures on our EOSDA crop monitoring service even though the satellite goes past every 3 days.
It is reported you don't/can't accept Paypal, who may otherwise police your income.
You use the word "we", but Companies House says it is one person, Mr Bennett, born 1995. At least your first name is not Gordon.
I can't see how your lottery can be done legally, so if you won't disclose how it is legal, people will ask the questions because as a community we don't like being scammed.

 

[The Lucky Hunter]

I admit to running a perfectly legal prize competition business. Not a lottery. You'll find all the information if you look up prize competitions and free draws. There are hundreds, if not thousands of these competition sites in the UK.

 

[WW.]

To be fair to him, there are a lot of these, like the Omaze ones and BOTB. They've sprung up a lot in recent years as there appears to be a legal loophole for it. Similar to the various national radio station competitions to win x thousand pounds which rake in millions for the companies running them.

I entered a couple of Lucky Hunter ones a few months ago, didn't win anything but calculated the odds were better than for anything else especially as not all tickets sold for all draws and I observed one of the draws. Assuming they're all like the one I watched, it did seem relatively transparent - a random number generator website was used to generate the random number for tickets. Any unsold ticket number meant the draw was redrawn. There was something else too but I can't remember what- can't remember if you were meant to be watching the draw for it to count or not.

I think the cash prize is alternative to the goodie bundle for most draws but is less than the retail value of the items. I presume Lucky Hunter gets them ex-VAT or at a wholesale price and this is reflected in the 'cash alternative' option.

 

[AlexD]

I admit to running a perfectly legal prize competition business. Not a lottery. You'll find all the information if you look up prize competitions and free draws. There are hundreds, if not thousands of these competition sites in the UK.

"A prize competition in business typically involves skill or effort from participants, with winners chosen based on merit, while a lottery is a game of chance where winners are selected randomly and usually requires a purchase or entry fee. Understanding these differences is crucial for legal compliance in promotional activities."
There is no skill in buying your lottery tickets, therefore it is a lottery and not a prize competition business.

The loophole used by Omaze, BOTB and Radio Stations, is to include a skill. The Lucky Hunter's business does not do that on the lottery he advertises here, so it cannot use that loophole.

 

[The Lucky Hunter]

Thanks very much for entering @WW!

We are completely transparent. You can see the value of the prize, how much we make (or lose) per competition. If the numbers don't all sell out (which they rarely do) it just means better odds for everyone who did enter.
We use the google random number generator, and if it lands on a number that hasn't got a name beside it, we roll again until we have a winner.

All draws go ahead regardless of ticket sales and all prizes are guaranteed

 

[jall55]

"A prize competition in business typically involves skill or effort from participants, with winners chosen based on merit, while a lottery is a game of chance where winners are selected randomly and usually requires a purchase or entry fee. Understanding these differences is crucial for legal compliance in promotional activities."
There is no skill in buying your lottery tickets, therefore it is a lottery and not a prize competition business.

The loophole used by Omaze, BOTB and Radio Stations, is to include a skill. The Lucky Hunter's business does not do that on the lottery he advertises here, so it cannot use that loophole.

Not wanting to get too involved as im not 100 percent sure of the regulations etc - But i think you have to answer a question on the site which again makes it all legal or as you say - lets the loophole be used

 

[slider]

Loads of similar competitions on the Internet, whether hobby specific related or for cars etc..
I have bought a number of tickets for Lucky Hunter competitions but while I haven't been successful I know 4 people who have had big value wins.
The odds on these competitions are miles better that the National Lottery

 

[slider]

"A prize competition in business typically involves skill or effort from participants, with winners chosen based on merit, while a lottery is a game of chance where winners are selected randomly and usually requires a purchase or entry fee. Understanding these differences is crucial for legal compliance in promotional activities."
There is no skill in buying your lottery tickets, therefore it is a lottery and not a prize competition business.

The loophole used by Omaze, BOTB and Radio Stations, is to include a skill. The Lucky Hunter's business does not do that on the lottery he advertises here, so it cannot use that loophole.

The "skill" element in similar competitions is a very simple multiple choice question, to which 99% of people will know the answer. Lucky Hunter uses exactly the same process.
Take a look at Rev Comps, who run dozens of similar competitions daily. Every comp has the same multiple choice question "what is the capital of England".

 

[Cottis]

The "skill" element in similar competitions is a very simple multiple choice question, to which 99% of people will know the answer. Lucky Hunter uses exactly the same process.
Take a look at Rev Comps, who run dozens of similar competitions daily. Every comp has the same multiple choice question "what is the capital of England".

You would think any person capable of breathing would be able to answer certain questions. Apparently not.

 

[The Lucky Hunter]

The "skill" element in similar competitions is a very simple multiple choice question, to which 99% of people will know the answer. Lucky Hunter uses exactly the same process.
Take a look at Rev Comps, who run dozens of similar competitions daily. Every comp has the same multiple choice question "what is the capital of England".

Loads of similar competitions on the Internet, whether hobby specific related or for cars etc..
I have bought a number of tickets for Lucky Hunter competitions but while I haven't been successful I know 4 people who have had big value wins.
The odds on these competitions are miles better that the National Lottery

You're spot on!

Thanks very much for your orders and support

 

[AlexD]

Assuming they're all like the one I watched, it did seem relatively transparent - a random number generator website was used to generate the random number for tickets. Any unsold ticket number meant the draw was redrawn. There was something else too but I can't remember what- can't remember if you were meant to be watching the draw for it to count or not.

Most people do not realise that "random number generators" are not at all random. They are really just a counter, that counts in a non-obvious sequence. They can mislead better than a magician's wave of his hand.

The random number is generated by a PRBS (Pseudo-random number sequence generator). An 8 bit PRBS will generate the same sequence of 255 "random" numbers every time, in a cycle that is 255 numbers long: it does not generate 0 usually, as 0 will clear the feedback stages in the PRBS and cause it to get stuck, unless someone has coded an exception for it or designed to handle zero. Each number is generated exactly once, unlike a real random generator that will generate some numbers multiple times in a typical run.
A 16 bit PRBS generates 2^16 -1 numbers (65,535 numbers), in the same sequence every time.

A nice scam is to have a lottery with 2^n -1 tickets (n being the PRBS length), sell some some tickets, buy a ticket, say the 100th ticket, then keep selling or rolling over until all 2^n tickets are sold. To find the winner in the draw, just run the PRBS 100 times, and bingo, it lands on the very ticket you have bought.

In this case, Mr Bennett would be using a 13 or 14 digit long PRBS (13 supposedly is unlucky for some, but 2^13 is 8196), in which case he should buy the tickets with the first 157 numbers that it generates.

I am not suggesting that has happened here, but the trust being placed in lottery organisations is immense, hence their regulation. An unregulated lottery that appears on the face of it to be less than legal, is a fools game.

As regards comments that the odds are better than other forms of gambling, that is not true. Just look at the numbers, he is getting £20,789 for £8,000 of goods. Those odds are far worse than a bookie, in terms of outlay and return, for the punter. Put on top of that an unregulated business which seems to dally with the boundaries of the law, with opportunities galore to rig the draw, and we have something that looks more like a scam. By his own admission, Mr Bennett seems to have made millions in just a few years, far more than any RFD I know, underlines this.

 

[WW.]

Interesting regarding number generators. I suppose that if an unknown number of others are using them simultaneously globally, as with a website based one, the sequence is less predictable for any one user?

'anything else' was imprecise, sorry. Any similar competitions (a few have been mentioned) would have been better. Even if one tries the lottery, getting four numbers right of 49 has odds of less than 1 in 2,000 for a potential return of circa £140 (Google result).

Most people do not realise that "random number generators" are not at all random. They are really just a counter, that counts in a non-obvious sequence. They can mislead better than a magician's wave of his hand.

The random number is generated by a PRBS (Pseudo-random number sequence generator). An 8 bit PRBS will generate the same sequence of 255 "random" numbers every time, in a cycle that is 255 numbers long: it does not generate 0 usually, as 0 will clear the feedback stages in the PRBS and cause it to get stuck, unless someone has coded an exception for it or designed to handle zero.
A 16 bit PRBS generates 2^16 -1 numbers (65,535 numbers), in the same sequence every time.

A nice scam is to have a lottery with 2^n -1 tickets (n being the PRBS length), sell some some tickets, buy a ticket, say the 100th ticket, then keep selling or rolling over until all 2^n tickets are sold. To find the winner in the draw, just run the PRBS 100 times, and bingo, it lands on the very ticket you have bought.

In this case, Mr Bennett would be using a 13 digit long PRBS (13 supposedly is unlucky for some, but 2^13 is 8196), in which case he should buy the tickets with the first 157 numbers that it generates.

I am not suggesting that has happened here, but the trust being placed in lottery organisations is immense, hence their regulation. An unregulated lottery that appears on the face of it to be less than legal, is a fools game.

As regards comments that the odds are better than other forms of gambling, that is not true. Just look at the numbers, he is getting £20,789 for £8,000 of goods. Those odds are far worse than a bookie, in terms of outlay and return, for the punter. Put on top of that an unregulated business which seems to dally with the boundaries of the law, with opportunities galore to rig the draw, and we have something that looks more like a scam. By his own admission, Mr Bennett seems to have made millions in just a few years, far more than any RFD I know, underlines this.

 

[Thomas Gordon]

Wish I had this much free time ...

 

[8x57]

This disagreement is very easily resolved. AlexD if you have genuine and sincere doubts about the "lottery" that The Lucky Hunter is running just report your concerns to the Gambling Commission and let them be the arbitrators.

 

[AlexD]

Interesting regarding number generators. I suppose that if an unknown number of others are using them simultaneously globally, as with a website based one, the sequence is less predictable for any one user?

'anything else' was imprecise, sorry. Any similar competitions (a few have been mentioned) would have been better. Even if one tries the lottery, getting four numbers right of 49 has odds of less than 1 in 2,000 for a potential return of circa £140 (Google result).

The sequence of any PRBS is totally predictable.
In fact one can print out the sequence: it literally is just a counter, that is counting in a sequence the human brain does not understand.

If you run a PRBS starting with the same seed as me, we will both get exactly the same numbers, no matter where we are in the world or on what hardware we run it, if the PRBS is the same length and position of taps (i.e. design of PRBS is the same). Nowadays almost everyone uses a library function for the PRBS, so everyone has the same sequences. If I can guess the PRBS length and which library they used, one can "guess" the next number with 100% confidence.

Often if you plot the numbers in 2D, you get a nice line. If you plot the numbers in a graph with the same dimensions as the number of feedback taps on the PRBS, you always get a straight line graph so long as one arranges the digits in the right order.

After Mr Bennett invited me to dig deeper, and refused to be transparent as to how it is legal, I contacted the Gambling Commission.

In the UK there is a lot of unlawful things happening, and we should be aware of the scams as the authorities are very slow. This is a gambling company feeding on SD members who appears to be making more money than any RFD I know.

 

[fordy1967]

Wish I had this much free time ...

Likewise, haven't even got time to buy a ticket....

 

[WW.]

The sequence of any PRBS is totally predictable.
In fact one can print out the sequence: it literally is just a counter, that is counting in a sequence the human brain does not understand.

If you run a PRBS starting with the same seed as me, we will both get exactly the same numbers, no matter where we are in the world or on what hardware we run it, if the PRBS is the same length and position of taps (i.e. design of PRBS is the same). Nowadays almost everyone uses a library function for the PRBS, so everyone has the same sequences. If I can guess the PRBS length and which library they used, one can "guess" the next number with 100% confidence.

Often if you plot the numbers in 2D, you get a nice line. If you plot the numbers in a graph with the same dimensions as the number of feedback taps on the PRBS, you always get a straight line graph so long as one arranges the digits in the right order.

After Mr Bennett invited me to dig deeper, and refused to be transparent as to how it is legal, I contacted the Gambling Commission.

In the UK there is a lot of unlawful things happening, and we should be aware of the scams as the authorities are very slow. This is a gambling company feeding on SD members who appears to be making more money than any RFD I know.

So if a website has a PRBS, and multiple users access it around the same time, would it start the sequence from scratch for each individual user (so presumably they have the same number each if the same library is used) or would it use the same sequence for all users so they get different numbers of the same sequence, in the order that difference people 'pressed the button'?

 

[AlexD]

So if a website has a PRBS, and multiple users access it around the same time, would it start the sequence from scratch for each individual user (so presumably they have the same number each if the same library is used) or would it use the same sequence for all users so they get different numbers of the same sequence, in the order that difference people 'pressed the button'?

When one has a PRBS call in a piece of code, you pass it the seed, and it gives you the next number in the sequence. Usually, that number becomes the new seed for the next call.

So to answer your question, there is no "start from scratch": it starts from the seed number which within the PRBS routine is written into the PRBS stages (a series of 1 bit registers, or an array of binary numbers, n in length).

For example, if you use Microsoft Visual Studio and use the C++ PRSB generator in that library, if you give me a PRBS number I can load a number into the PRBS stages that will give me the next number in your sequence. This works for any PRBS, so long as I know the length and where the taps are: these are fixed in each library implementation.