Country file

I also think that with deer, uk shooters as a whole are missing a trick.

Focus is on rearing and then releasing phaesants on anything from a large commercial scale down to small little syndicates.

Deer are looked down on. Get in the way of the shooting etc.

I think the future should be much more driven big game type hunting, as it’s a very good way of getting good numbers in a short space of time.

And for those who have been on driven hunts - its a really enjoyable experience.

Dealing with herds of fallow deer etc - a couple of hunts a year takes of the bulk of the cull. Rest of the year any hunting is pretty much picking off the odd beast and discouraging them from agriculture and keeping them in the woods.

Driven hunts need organising. But then so does phaesant shooting, so the skills are there.

And the other big benefit is that whilst the hunt itself disturbs things quite a bit, it only happens a few times and everything is left in peace between times.

Driven hunts on the continent happen regularly in pretty densely populated areas - Denmark, Central Germany etc. - no different to English pheasant really.

Yes there would need to be training and development of new skills, but that is not beyond the whit of man.
 
Can you imagine stalking over ground, woodland and field that have a population of 2/acre? You'll need plenty of time and a thermal, manage a right and left and you've no deer left, as many a stalker's lease will be less than one km2.

I think the figure 2/km2 as a generalisation is absolute nonsense and some places will handle considerably more than the 14/km2. Not all year around, an area I cover holds a lot more and the woodland has a very good understory, much too thick in places, been monitored for 30 odd years by the same ornithologists' who reports improved conditions for the birds that use it, the garden warblers, blackcaps etc etc.

Should any national cull take place by any means, the landowners will still think the leases they hold will still be worth the same, so there'll be alot of leases given up as not worth it. Yes you may find people willing to take them on but at what future value with deer thin on the ground??? You may be able to still maintain your local numbers for a short while, but when numbers are drastically reduced on neighbouring land, your numbers will go down with natural migration. I'm not sure what the average lease or area of free stalking tends to produce, I'll take a wild guess and say 10/annum based on lots of small areas where it's only possible to take 1 or 2 every year compared to some places where it may be a couple of hundred. Would your lease or area be worth anything if rather than the current 10 were reduded to 1 or 2?

We all see how US and even Scandinavian hunters are limited to a couple of deer per year. Maybe that'll be us, because the more often people complain about high deer numbers, the more likely we'll get to the 2/km2 :(
 
Can you imagine stalking over ground, woodland and field that have a population of 2/acre? You'll need plenty of time and a thermal, manage a right and left and you've no deer left, as many a stalker's lease will be less than one km2.

I think the figure 2/km2 as a generalisation is absolute nonsense and some places will handle considerably more than the 14/km2. Not all year around, an area I cover holds a lot more and the woodland has a very good understory, much too thick in places, been monitored for 30 odd years by the same ornithologists' who reports improved conditions for the birds that use it, the garden warblers, blackcaps etc etc.

Should any national cull take place by any means, the landowners will still think the leases they hold will still be worth the same, so there'll be alot of leases given up as not worth it. Yes you may find people willing to take them on but at what future value with deer thin on the ground??? You may be able to still maintain your local numbers for a short while, but when numbers are drastically reduced on neighbouring land, your numbers will go down with natural migration. I'm not sure what the average lease or area of free stalking tends to produce, I'll take a wild guess and say 10/annum based on lots of small areas where it's only possible to take 1 or 2 every year compared to some places where it may be a couple of hundred. Would your lease or area be worth anything if rather than the current 10 were reduded to 1 or 2?

We all see how US and even Scandinavian hunters are limited to a couple of deer per year. Maybe that'll be us, because the more often people complain about high deer numbers, the more likely we'll get to the 2/km2 :(
Never going to happen down south. We have millions of muntjac and CWD to deal with. Whilst you have those 2 species spreading down every train track, road and water-way our deer numbers will always be a problem. When people refuse to shoot deer because the game dealers are paying next to nothing they're just kicking the can down the road as the deer reproduce and the venison is worth even less the following year.
 
I caught the last bit. Need to re watch on Iplayer. Clearly a huge population of fallow does. Paying contractors £60 a deer to cull them. Seems ironic many stalkers pay to shoot deer. It's looking like landowners will soon need to pay stalkers to cull them!
Thermal drone counting looked very good. Identified species and sex. Also showed the huge inadequacies of conventional deer counting methods.
D
Remember the post the other week about a certain shooting organisation and a proficiency test!!
 
Never going to happen down south. We have millions of muntjac and CWD to deal with. Whilst you have those 2 species spreading down every train track, road and water-way our deer numbers will always be a problem. When people refuse to shoot deer because the game dealers are paying next to nothing they're just kicking the can down the road as the deer reproduce and the venison is worth even less the following year.
That’s the issue, no fair price, deer shot limited…., more deer…., time for gov contractors and not exactly helicopters but only quads and trucks needed.
If you are in an area that’s deemed too high in numbers, it’ll take a while but I’m sure you’ll notice a considerable difference after a couple of years. Hence the push for using food banks, dog food etc., so that nobody can say slaughtered and wasted.
 
Suspect they would need to review the bounty to attract any serious outfits with the staff and kit if dealing with larger animals in numbers but a nice little tickle if retired or similar for the little fellows.🤷🏽‍♂️
 
You’ve got to have the market for the meat though. This is a balanced yet depressing watch, especially with regards to the woman who’d quite happily eat factory farmed processed rubbish but calls venison disgusting.




That is a depressing watch indeed - firstly the fact that we need foodbanks when food waste (Good food going rotten rather than the bits you can't eat) runs at, I think, over 30% nationwide. Then the obesity and obvious looming medical issues of so many of the food bank users who still refuse good quality protein in favour of over processed carbs and thirdly the ridiculous notion that a broiler chicken, possibly raised overseas in squalor with abysmal welfare standards, chemically tainted food and killed inhumanely is somehow more morally acceptable than a wild free range deer never handled by a human whilst alive and never subjected to the slaughterhouse but instead dropped instantly with a well placed shot.

The first world is so far removed from its roots that I don't think it will ever be rectified.

However the deer manager came across very well and I though the reporter was pretty balanced.
 
That is a depressing watch indeed - firstly the fact that we need foodbanks when food waste (Good food going rotten rather than the bits you can't eat) runs at, I think, over 30% nationwide. Then the obesity and obvious looming medical issues of so many of the food bank users who still refuse good quality protein in favour of over processed carbs and thirdly the ridiculous notion that a broiler chicken, possibly raised overseas in squalor with abysmal welfare standards, chemically tainted food and killed inhumanely is somehow more morally acceptable than a wild free range deer never handled by a human whilst alive and never subjected to the slaughterhouse but instead dropped instantly with a well placed shot.

The first world is so far removed from its roots that I don't think it will ever be rectified.

However the deer manager came across very well and I though the reporter was pretty balanced.
Do we need food banks? Offer a benefit and the people of Britain will queue up to claim it. Why would you pay for food if you can get it for free and keep your benefits money for 'luxuries like Sky TV, a new i phone or alcohol'. People of a BMI over 30 should be banned from food banks as they're clearly not hungry. That would reduce the 'need' considerably!
 
Do we need food banks? Offer a benefit and the people of Britain will queue up to claim it. Why would you pay for food if you can get it for free and keep your benefits money for 'luxuries like Sky TV, a new i phone or alcohol'. People of a BMI over 30 should be banned from food banks as they're clearly not hungry. That would reduce the 'need' considerably!
You are correct we dont need food banks but i do feel you are looking at the wrong end of the pay divide. A small get together of 20 close friends of Boris Johnston cost in excess of 30.000 pounds. ( our money ) That i feel is were our target should be not the pour. There are to many deer if the powers that be wanted to make sure it was available they would support food charity,s with there own profits and pay better wages.
 
I live right where they filmed this. I can't not see deer when I'm out. Car collisions are high. We've two battles going on too, one is that stalking seems very much "sewn up" by a few, and we also have a village up the road called Forest Row. It's basically a hippy commune that won't shoot deer, eat meat, vaccinate, or see a doctor that doesn't use a healing crystal.
 
I don't think you can just front up at a food bank and get a handout, a voucher or referral is required, however where I live there is a community fridge which everybody is welcome, you queue and when you get to the front you can fill a carrier bag, if you want more you go the back of the queue then can fill another bag when you're at the front again if there is any left.
 
Do we need food banks? Offer a benefit and the people of Britain will queue up to claim it. Why would you pay for food if you can get it for free and keep your benefits money for 'luxuries like Sky TV, a new i phone or alcohol'. People of a BMI over 30 should be banned from food banks as they're clearly not hungry. That would reduce the 'need' considerably!
Yes - we do need food banks. I hate the idea as much as most but there is a portion of society that simply cannot or will not look after themselves. In many perspectives it's fine to let people suffer the consequences of their own inadequacies but most of them have (too many) children and it is not the children's fault that mum and dad are hopeless, or have actually had a run of bad luck.

Not everyone who has fallen on hard times is a feckless chav - most people are only a very few missed pay-cheques or one bout of illness away from penury. Withholding the right to eat from sections of society, regardless of their failings, says more about that society than the presence of people unable or unwilling to cope. By the same metric a smoker should have treatment for smoking related illness withheld and a recreational stalker should not be treated for a stalking related injury, then they'll come for drinkers and I'd be doomed on all three fronts!

I know a person who has to use foodbanks - her teenage daughter is terribly brain-injured and the husband died in the accident that injured her daughter. Aside form caring for her daughter she does what work she can from home and in a shop near her. All of this coupled with the benefits rightfully (and correctly IMO) due to her only just covers rent and household bills (high due to the daughters needs and the amount of laundry and heating needed). None of this is her fault, she is one of the most willing, capable and helpful people I know but she still needs a food bank - even when friends and neighbours help out with what they can and make sure she's OK.
 
Here we go!!
Thread starts about country file and the deer management/issues and ends up a slanging match about food banks, being chavs and weather or not people really need to use them.
Ok rant over and back in my box.

By the way I thought the piece on CF was good.
 
Here we go!!
Thread starts about country file and the deer management/issues and ends up a slanging match about food banks, being chavs and weather or not people really need to use them.
Ok rant over and back in my box.

By the way I thought the piece on CF was good.
I totally agree with you.
 
I am quite close to the carcass scheme in parts of the High Weald and i also watched the program . It was unfortunate that some editiing has created confusion about the term "contractors". What was said at the interview stage was that landowners should see stalkers as contractors as they do fencing contractors for example and expect to pay for a service , So for clarity the scheme makes payment to the landowner but encourages the landowner to consider the stalker (referred to as contractor in the part of the interview that was shown) as they would a contractor and as the stalker has all the costs and time inivested they should share the payment with them . In some cases this does happen,
As regards deer numbers, it was 2-5 deer per km2 if you expected to see woodland regeneration. However in reality it depends how you use the land but of course deer and especially fallow can roam up to 25km so what is acceptable to some wont work for other landowners
Finally, another part that was edited out was the link between stalkers and the venison meat market, and especially Plaw Hatch and Tablehurst farm shops who are in the vicinity and actively encourage venison sales using locallly sourced animals - this i feel would have nicely concluded the story.
I do however feel it was relatively balanced but you could do a whole program on this subject , but then i would not have learnt how to catch a hefalump :)
 
Here we go!!
Thread starts about country file and the deer management/issues and ends up a slanging match about food banks, being chavs and weather or not people really need to use them.
Ok rant over and back in my box.

By the way I thought the piece on CF was good.
Sorry if you thought I was slanging - I wasn't trying to. I just think there are two sides to stories such as that. I also thought the people interviewed who wouldn't eat venison are the kind who would turn down anything that wasn't ultra-processed and unhealthy - I think the editing kind of played into the hands of the reasonable section who see good quality, free protein for what it is.

I won't comment again on this - I really didn't want to derail the thread. I think the CF piece is OK too.
 
Back
Top