Cull vs trophy?

captdavid

Well-Known Member
#1
In Texas: Deer are considered the property of the landowner or lease owner upon where they are killed. Native deer are regulated by the state, non-native (exotics) are not. Land is leased in most cases depending upon the value of the deer to be taken. Many places charge individuals per the trophy. These individual or lease hunts are on both low and high fence ranches. Price is what the market will bear.

We seldom shoot immature bucks/stags, usually waiting until they are around 4yrs old.
What's a trophy. as an example a high dollar trophy Fallow, on a high fenced ranch will be older than-4-5, and have full palmentation. A hunter may choose to shoot one with a fishtail, its their decision. An animal of this quality will sell from around $3000. Unless it is obviously not going to produce good horns, it is not taken.

On a low fence ranch with free ranging deer Trophies are sold for the same price, but spikes might be $1000, it kind of goes up from there.

Exotic does start around $350, natives a little less. Our season is during or just after rut, so no problems with babies. we cull does to reduce herd size.Guide fees, including permission to hunt start around $300 per day and go up, for one or two people. Semi-guided, they take you out, they pick you up. this is usually for antlerless deer.
In Britain :british:I understand that one doesn't shoot pregnant females, or those with young, but what makes a female cull
What makes a cull buck? what makes a trophy buck/stag?
capt david

off topic what's an old git:old: is it good or bad?

I consider myself a happy crumudgeun which might be an oxymoron. Is it similar. I look similar to the one in the smiley faces!
 

Silvius

Well-Known Member
#2
Its interesting to hear how you do things in your country. Having the exotic animals to hunt must be interesting.

I shoot small wild deer -Roe and Muntjac. They are all there are on my land and land where I have permission. In the case of both these the females are shot pregnant. In the case of Roe it is because they either nursing or pregnant (they have delayed implantation) and so shooting them pregnant stops you orphaning young who can't fend for themselves. The Muntjac reproduce all year round -if I recall right about every 7 months, so there can't be an off season. Shooting them heavily pregnant is preferable (though somewhat distasteful) as then they won't have dependent young.

When it comes to shooting those with young, one needs to decide whether or not to take the young too -are they able to fend for themselves in your given environment (for a small island we have quite a range of climates) at their particular age.

A doe cull is pretty important to reduce deer damage and while some feel they can master which animals to pick most just go for getting a certain number of does and unless there is an obvious good reason not to shoot, if she comes in your sights you shoot -the season is one of short days and bad weather and people can find it harder to complete the numbers for a doe cull.

Bucks are a bit easier to classify into cull and trophy animals -from antlers and body shape. Generally young bucks make up the greater numbers in an ideal buck cull and then a few older ones and middle aged ones who do not seem to be great specimens. One man's trophy may differ from another's but most people will feel a trophy animal needs to be at least a representative head and preferably at least heading towards the medal end of things.

Old git can be used both with good humour and with some irritation. Curmudgeon is not a bad approximation but git is more colloquial. One can also be a young git but they are just gits (perhaps people who pull out in front of you and make you brake) and it is never used good humouredly for them.
 

Freeforester

Well-Known Member
#3
I think there are estates here which shoot fishtail (forked) antlered fallow bucks as cull animals as opposed to trophies, as this trait is considered undesireable, and hence these animals are removed to try to prevent furtherance of said trait in the herd.
 
#4
On the area I shoot the group will take Sika hinds right up to the end of the season to achieve the cull; meaning they can be quite heavily pregnant. Also calves before hinds prior to end December
 
#5
In the UK you cannot have property rights in something that you don't own. So you cannot own a supposedly free roaming wild animal.

Even if you breed pheasants once you've released them you don't own them like you'd own free roaming chickens that you also, at the same time, released. Thus taking someone's released, alive, pheasants is poaching, Capt. David, not theft regardless of if you catch them alive or kill them.

However if, say, you are wandering through a wood whilst shooting is taking place and you come across the game cart, or game larder, full with just shot dead pheasants...and you take them...then that it theft. So when you see British books talking of poaching, and poachers, now you know!
 

captdavid

Well-Known Member
#6
Native game belongs to the landowner, but regulated by the state. Non native game belongs to the landowner also. It's not regulated by the state. Its usually on high fenced game proof property. Over the years some have escaped and established pockets of free ranging animals. There is no state regulation on these animals. They belong to the landowner. Most property is posted, and unauthorized trespassers prosecuted'. capt david :old: 'Happy Curmudgeon

:british: Definition Isn't a British poacher called a 'lunger' or something along with a dog breed?
 

tusker

Well-Known Member
#8
Native game belongs to the landowner, but regulated by the state. Non native game belongs to the landowner also. It's not regulated by the state. Its usually on high fenced game proof property. Over the years some have escaped and established pockets of free ranging animals. There is no state regulation on these animals. They belong to the landowner. Most property is posted, and unauthorized trespassers prosecuted'. capt david :old: 'Happy Curmudgeon

:british: Definition Isn't a British poacher called a 'lunger' or something along with a dog breed?
I think you are thinking of "lurcher" often used by poachers but also used by legitimate hunters.
Tusker
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
#9
If understand correctly, trespassers can only be prosecuted in the UK, if they have caused damage. Otherwise there is little a land owner can do apart from ask them to leave.
But a landowner could get an injunction in a civil court to stop repeated trespass, then a repeat would be contempt of court, and more serious. That's how I understand it.
 
#11
Native game belongs to the landowner, but regulated by the state. Non native game belongs to the landowner also. It's not regulated by the state. Its usually on high fenced game proof property. Over the years some have escaped and established pockets of free ranging animals. There is no state regulation on these animals. They belong to the landowner. Most property is posted, and unauthorized trespassers prosecuted'.
For Clarification - what he describes above is almost solely a "Texas Thing". The only other state with laws remotely close is Florida where feral hogs are classified as livestock and therefore the property of the landowner. Texas was a short lived independent Republic prior to joining the USA, and therefore brought over some unique holdover laws that are found no where else in the US.

In the remaining 48 states (perhaps 47 - Hawaii has some unique laws that are almost "non-American") native game is NEVER the property of the landowner, it is held in trust for the people of the United States and managed by the state government (and Federal govt in the case of migratory or special interest species like grizzlies and wolves). Further, in most states there are significant restrictions on ownership of non-native game animals (much of this owing to the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease). Most states do indeed regulate these non-native game animals and will often limit or restrict their movement between states, or even within a state.

So - If you are in any of the other 47 states and you have 50 resident deer living in your field, eating your grain and forage, and sleeping in your woodlot - you have no authority to take/kill these outside of state established seasons and bag limits. These are "the peoples" deer - not yours. This legal situation arose very early on in our country - in direct opposition to the British way and the concept of "The King's Deer" (or the Duke's, etc...).
 
#12
Cootmeurer, is correct, this is true in Texas. If you will notice, I started the post with "In Texas." Other than migratory birds, most game laws are set by each individual state. Many things are legal in one state and illegal in another. BTW, :)When Texas annexted the US,:lol: we decided to keep the name USA rather than change all that money and addresses to the UST!!!:D capt david
 
#13
But a landowner could get an injunction in a civil court to stop repeated trespass, then a repeat would be contempt of court, and more serious. That's how I understand it.
Trespass is a civil or criminal offence depending on whether the trespasser is armed in England and Wales. So a civil injunction for repeated ‘ramblers’ a call to the plod for an armed poacher.
 

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