Deer distribution

1967spud Reloading Supplies Ltd - UK Suppliers for Reloading Equipment supplies, We also stock Bullet Heads and Bullet Cases Guns Cabinets, Night vision and much much more...

scubadog

Well-Known Member
So being new to this game I am keen to learn what I can.
In my quest for knowledge I have found the BDS distribution survey maps.

I note that they have survey maps from 2000 and 2009.
The first thing that struck me is that the population distribution of all 6 species has spread over this period.

Does this mean that the population is growing or that the population is spreading?
 

Mungo

Well-Known Member
Does this mean that the population is growing or that the population is spreading?

Essentially both.

As a population grows within an area, competition for available resources steadily increases. There comes a point where animals born into that population do better by moving away, into an area where there is less competition. If they can establish themselves there, they then start breeding, and the population starts to increase in the new area as well, and the cycle repeats. So population density within specific areas is often increasing, and the total area occupied is increasing as well.

There are large areas of suitable habitat in the UK which were unoccupied until recently, largely as a result of extermination during the Middle Ages. Deer are expanding back into these areas, and doing so very quickly because they have no natural predators (the biggest source of mortality is RTAs). If you think that a roe doe can usually produce 2 kids a year, that means that with enough food, the population can effectively double in a year.
 

Labrat

Well-Known Member
both, the common reason for spread being the existing ground reaching carrying capacity (food or territorial) and overflow/expansion to fill a void.

​edit: must type faster when reading a thread and drinking coffee :lol:
 

scubadog

Well-Known Member
Well I guess a deer stalkers that is good news?
I guess as a farmer that is bad news.

I am a keen sea fisherman also. I have to say that it is a nice change to be hunting something that
is truly sustainable and whose population is far from under threat.
 

paul k

Well-Known Member
To add to the previous comments, some of the spread is the result of assistance by "Ifor Williams", this is obviously the case where new deer species appear in places like Northern Ireland as they don't swim that well! It is also possibly the case where species are recorded in areas not particularly adjacent to areas where the species is established.

The other point to consider is that recorded presence is no indication of any particular density, it might be only the odd beast rather than an established population and there is also the problem of misidentification to deal with.

Overall though most of the UK deer species are increasing both in numbers and distribution, particularly roe and muntjac. For example in Wales 50 years ago there were probably only fallow in three or four basic areas but now every species except CWD is probably represented (plus wild boar) and almost every county on the mainland UK now has wild deer present.
 

scubadog

Well-Known Member
To add to the previous comments, some of the spread is the result of assistance by "Ifor Williams", this is obviously the case where new deer species appear in places like Northern Ireland as they don't swim that well! It is also possibly the case where species are recorded in areas not particularly adjacent to areas where the species is established.

.

What or how have Ifor Williams done to help spread the deer population?

Presumably as the Roe and CWD population expands they will inevitably put pressure on the more native species?
 

patjack

Well-Known Member
What or how have Ifor Williams done to help spread the deer population?

Presumably as the Roe and CWD population expands they will inevitably put pressure on the more native species?

Are Roe not considered our original native species?
Not only Ifor Williams trailer man also Van Man and 4x4 Man has helped in reintroducing deer species to all corners of the Uk and Europe.
 

mark@mbb

Well-Known Member
I just wish Mr Williams would bring a trailer full off Muntys to Cheshire I
think they would survive very well round here if they then put pikeys
on the general licence the job would be a good one
 

Mungo

Well-Known Member
What or how have Ifor Williams done to help spread the deer population?

Presumably as the Roe and CWD population expands they will inevitably put pressure on the more native species?

Ifor Williams = brand of canopy for pick ups. Used for transporting tools, animals and...other things. It's widely suspected that some of the more dramatic muntjac range expansions have been in the back of vans/trailers.

Roe are native (along with red). Fallow are sort of borderline (were here prior to the last glaciation). Muntjac, CWD and sika are introduced.

Exactly how the introduced species will affect the native species is an issue of great controversy that no one can really agree on - primarily because it has happened so recntly and so quickly that there is very little data. In many areas, roe are recolonising at the same time as muntjac arrive for the firstv time. So it's very hard to pick apart the ecology: you have an environment that had no deer for several hundred years, followed by the arrival of a 'native' deer, but with no natural predators, followed by the arrival of a non-native deer. It's a very big experiment.
 

Morgy

Well-Known Member
Mark

There are supposed to be Muntys just down the road from your house near Northwich off Junction 10, mind they would have to negotiate the M6
 

timbrayford

Well-Known Member
To add to the previous comments, some of the spread is the result of assistance by "Ifor Williams", this is obviously the case where new deer species appear in places like Northern Ireland as they don't swim that well!

As well as being superb athletes on land deer are actually very good swimmers and have been seen swimmimg in the Solent which they occasionally cross to the Isle of Wight. atb Tim
 

K333ROE

Well-Known Member
The first time Red Deer were put onto Tarransay they swam back to the mainland nearly faster than the transport that put them there. They were also introduced to Stroma in the Pentland Firth, 8 knot currents, they swam back to the mainland.
 

ronscomon

Well-Known Member
Exactly how the introduced species will affect the native species is an issue of great controversy that no one can really agree on - primarily because it has happened so recntly and so quickly that there is very little data. In many areas, roe are recolonising at the same time as muntjac arrive for the firstv time. So it's very hard to pick apart the ecology: you have an environment that had no deer for several hundred years, followed by the arrival of a 'native' deer, but with no natural predators, followed by the arrival of a non-native deer. It's a very big experiment.


It's true that reds are pretty strong swimmers, but I doubt any species would manage the swim to Ireland. Those are certainly assisted by users of Mr Williams's products and there is little doubt that muntys at least have been given lifts around the country in the past, which is not particularly good for farmers, and worse for some vegetation such as native orchids which they seem to have a taste for - they certainly munch them off with relish round here. Mungo's right, it is all one big ecological experiment.
 
Stoney Creek - Purpose Built Shooting Clothing
Top