Define 'Cross-Contamination'????

cowsmart

Well-Known Member
You are right to a certain extent, as I am an AW and certainly wouldn't expect to see anything as I described in my OP during a DSC 2 gralloch.
I take much personal pride in my own carcass handling and do my utmost to keep everything as clean and hygienic as possible whilst the carcass is in my care. What then annoys me, is how I see the carcass make the rest of its journey towards the plate. The way even the 'reputable' game dealers treat the carcass seems to make my efforts futile. I dread to think how some of the lesser operatives treat them!:scared:
I think what concerns me most, is that any comeback from a mistreated carcass could come back to me as it is my name on the tag. It hasn't happened yet thankfully.MS


Once you have sold the carcass and the game dealer has accepted it, then responsibility has passed to him...
 

Mr Lewis

Well-Known Member
what makes me laugh is that we sit and watch a stag grunt around and roll in a midden of its own **** and peat, getting itself thoroughly soiled

If that is the case and you cull the animal I hope you dont sign a declaration and put it into the food chain!
 

Monkey Spanker

Well-Known Member
what makes me laugh is that we sit and watch a stag grunt around and roll in a midden of its own **** and peat, getting itself thoroughly soiled and then worry about touching it with a sterile knife!

as soon as you puncture that skin you are "contaminating" the "meat"

it all goes a bit too far for me to be honest!

You are indeed! Your bullet drags a load of crap in and no matter how good your gralloch is, there is still an interface between the clean and downright 5hitty! Kind of puts the glove scenario into perspective doesn't it! Maybe we do go a bit far - but I'm happy to strive for the best I can do. It is only effective though if applied at all stages!
MS
 

cowsmart

Well-Known Member
when the ministry vet stamps the meat and holds the carcass without gloves is he not contaminating? everytime you open the chill door is that not contaminating? buggar me we should all be vegans and eat soil..oh no that contains anthrax......
 

cjm1066

Well-Known Member
The butchers cross continuation is when cooked and uncooked meats come into contact.

Ours, is if we move contaminated material from one animal to the other during our grallock and preparing the carcase for the game dealer. Rest assured that if food poisoning ever occurred the authorities would investigate all through the chain of supply, and identify the weakest link.

The bottom line is if you have two animals and get green when gralloching the first you can’t use that for the second animal until after is properly cleaned.
 

Overlay

Well-Known Member
Correct shot, Proper inspection, correct gralloch procedures follow the guidelines to minimise risk, store and carriage Minimise risk by compliance , the paper trail is to record compliance, every person who handles the beast is responsible, you don't pass the buck to the next person everyone should behave in a hygeinic manner to control and minimise risk. Simples. Basic food hygiene principles not rocket science
 

Paul at Fechan

Well-Known Member
Are you?:rolleyes:

Do you know what the wording of the legally required declaration even is???????:doh:

if you actually have to sign anything!... it basically amounts to is the carcass you shot to the best of your knowledge and inspection suitable for the human food chain.

the important part that is of legal importance is did a person submit a carcass for entry into the food chain that they knowingly considered unsafe or had cause to believe may be of hazard to human health. Considering a knife has to cut through the deers fur to gralloch the deer which is about as clean as shite I'm really not concerned by the use of the same knife wiped off on two deer on the same outing.

Best not talk about the times when we're culling hinds then! :doh: I'd need to go out armed like Jack the ripper to keep some people happy
 

jamross65

Well-Known Member
Going by the definition of 'cross contamination' I am not so inclined to agree.

It suggests that it is the spreading of harmful germs or bacteria from a contaminated food source to an otherwise non infected food source.

Therefore, as the first beast was deemed fit for human consumption and no suggestion of harmful bacteria being present and as they have both been gralloched immediately after being shot, why would we assume that harmful germs or bacteria are in fact present?

People having just eaten venison tartare don't all come down with food poisoning so surely it cannot be assumed bacteria or other harmful germs are present there either. In fact why shouldnthey be on a fresh kill? Perhaps neither of these beasts can cross contaminate each other because neither are carrying harmful bacteria as far as we know?

All raw meats may carry bacteria but most are harmless...
 

PointBlank

Well-Known Member
Good point MS, obviously if you finish by coreing out its arsehole then it's only fair to give it a wipe before starting the next one though otherwise it does sound a bit ott.

I remember watching that documentary about the New Zealand cull with those gutters doing hundreds of beasts a day, I didn't see one Anti-Bacterial wipe :) I wonder how many people got ill from it.......
 

Mr Lewis

Well-Known Member
if you actually have to sign anything!... it basically amounts to is the carcass you shot to the best of your knowledge and inspection suitable for the human food chain.

the important part that is of legal importance is did a person submit a carcass for entry into the food chain that they knowingly considered unsafe or had cause to believe may be of hazard to human health. Considering a knife has to cut through the deers fur to gralloch the deer which is about as clean as shite I'm really not concerned by the use of the same knife wiped off on two deer on the same outing.

Best not talk about the times when we're culling hinds then! :doh: I'd need to go out armed like Jack the ripper to keep some people happy

By Law you do have to sign a declaration.

You are supposed to be teaching this subject and seem ignorant of the law is it any wonder the the powers that be in Scotland want proof of competance.
 

widows son

Well-Known Member
Tamus, the question was purely hypothetical and designed to raise debate on what is in my opinion a very 'grey area'! My scenario features two perfectly healthy animals. Best practice guidelines insist that we change our gloves and clean our tools between grallochs but if a DSC2 candidate chose not to for instance in a similar situation to above, would it be acceptable? If neither animal is deemed as contaminated (and we sign a game tag declaration to this effect) has wrong been done, considering they may end up in the same batch of sausages anyway?

Your right on one thing it is hypothetical ,we'll cut to the chase it is more of a oxymoron than a debatable question ,what did "we" do before best practice and the office produced guidelines ???

Yes right we got on with the job, without carrying bio wipes, rubber gloves, hand sanitiser and a host of other crap ,yes fantastic some one has taken the time to sit down a place all this information into a concise guide ,have they ever thought about going stalking with all the crap in your pockets,as we move on through chain, we are the only one's that carry out the cross contamination rubbish .

I'll move on a stage how many carcasses go through a slaughter house per day ??? How many times do they stop and clean the working tools ???
the meat goes on to a butchers, the butcher is working on a Rump someone asks for a Sirloin does he stop and clean his knife no he doesn't does he clean his block every time he works on a carcass or changes between species no he doesn't .

This means that everything we eat, due to handling is cross contaminated ,by the number to people that handle it, by the movement and transportation of it ,and theres a issue about gloves and a knife ,lets wake up and smell the coffee .


Guideline
Definition


Recommended practice that allows some discretion or leeway in its interpretation, implementation, or use.


Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/guideline.html#ixzz22oFg8Zzf
 
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David TS

Well-Known Member
Going by the definition of 'cross contamination' I am not so inclined to agree.

It suggests that it is the spreading of harmful germs or bacteria from a contaminated food source to an otherwise non infected food source.

Therefore, as the first beast was deemed fit for human consumption and no suggestion of harmful bacteria being present and as they have both been gralloched immediately after being shot, why would we assume that harmful germs or bacteria are in fact present?

People having just eaten venison tartare don't all come down with food poisoning so surely it cannot be assumed bacteria or other harmful germs are present there either. In fact why shouldnthey be on a fresh kill? Perhaps neither of these beasts can cross contaminate each other because neither are carrying harmful bacteria as far as we know?

All raw meats may carry bacteria but most are harmless...

This was going to be basically my answer.

Simply, if neither carcase is contaminated, surely you can't have cross contamination :).
 

Roedinator

Distinguished Member
For the purposes of level 2 no it's not acceptable, cross contamination has occurred and there is no reason for it other than laziness, change your gloves and clean your equipment between carcasses and potentially also during the processing of one carcass if you move from working on the outside to the inside(I know it's hypothetical). I think the point that has been missed is that in the declaration you are declaring you've observed no abnormalities, you can't observe bacteria which is what cross contamination is concerned with. What if an un-noticed amount of stomach content was on the knife from the 'clean' neck shot and then transferred all over the next carcass? Possible e-coli transmitted but nothing to do with the hunters declaration. Cross contamination is avoided by best practice, the declaration has nothing to do with it, we are not declaring them as contaminated or not, just that we observed no abnormalities and although bacteria cannot be observed in the field their spread can be reduced as much as possible.

very reassureing im going to be doing my level two with you ben at least if i pass I know I can class
myself as a pro stalker then :D
ps where can i buy some gloves and sterile wipes around our neck of the woods ;)
oh thats if I pass my level one of course .
regards pete .
 

ScottishDeer

Well-Known Member
Your right on one thing it is hypothetical ,we'll cut to the chase it is more of a oxymoron than a debatable question ,what did "we" do before best practice and the office produced guidelines ???

Yes right we got on with the job, without carrying bio wipes, rubber gloves, hand sanitiser and a host of other crap ,yes fantastic some one has taken the time to sit down a place all this information into a concise guide ,have they ever thought about going stalking with all the crap in your pockets,as we move on through chain, we are the only one's that carry out the cross contamination rubbish .

I'll move on a stage how many carcasses go through a slaughter house per day ??? How many times do they stop and clean the working tools ???
the meat goes on to a butchers, the butcher is working on a Rump someone asks for a Sirloin does he stop and clean his knife no he doesn't does he clean his block every time he works on a carcass or changes between species no he doesn't .

This means that everything we eat, due to handling is cross contaminated ,by the number to people that handle it, by the movement and transportation of it ,and theres a issue about gloves and a knife ,lets wake up and smell the coffee .

Guideline
Definition


Recommended practice that allows some discretion or leeway in its interpretation, implementation, or use.


Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/guideline.html#ixzz22oFg8Zzf


Agree with this post!
 

AlbaTaxidermy

Well-Known Member
So.... from first reply, everything is cross contaminated and therefore not fit for the food chain.

Second reply states that anything uncooked is contaminated anyway so as long as we cook it properly I don't need to bother changing my gloves!
Further to my first question..... Is blood a contaminant?:confused:
good one :lol:
 
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