Do you need a specialist deer dog ?

cgh

New Member
O.K here goes, with all the talk of the various breeds of dogs available including Bavarian and Hannovarian do you need a dog this specialised ? in most cases the answear is no, these dogs are bred for the tracking of wounded deer resulting from a driven shoot, they need training from an early age 8 weeks is not to early to start and then need constant work on trails for their working life these trails being up to 1km plus. Most other breeds will track a wounded deer or one that has disappeared into the undergrowth and cannot be found by trailing yourself, so think carefully before commiting to a dog that requires full time training and don't ruin blood lines for future generations by having for what is some just another stalking accessory.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Some people want a multi purpose dog that they can use for pheasant,rough shooting,wildfowling and stalking. Nothing wrong with that. Others want a dedicated dog for stalking. If you are paying a lot of money for a hunting dog why not train it to a resonable standard.
Having to start a tracking dog training at 8 weeks is just skitsnack (Swedish for BS). Training any hunting dog is a life times work . Whats new in that. No you don't need to train them full time.

How is having a dedicated deer dog going to ruin the blood lines for future generations? skitsnack.

To my way of thinking dog training is just a part of the wider picture of stalking
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
cjh. i find your comments rather unusual :eek:

How can you call a dog a stalking accessory ? that is one of the most stupid remarks I have ever heard from anyone that stalks deer!! And Bavarians were not used all the time for European driven hunts, they were bred for their bloodspooring abilities and endurance for climbing steep terrain, Hanovarians are very similar.

I will refrain from making further comment, but as this is your first post on this site your comments are rather unusual, although we have had one or two others on here with a similar style of writing :rolleyes:
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
If you want to enjoy the company of a dog, and vice versa, then training is the way to go. Whether it is for specialised tracking or just being an obedient pet dog that will do what is asked of it when it is asked of it. It is easier and far more pleasant for you to have a dog that knows its place, and a dog that has its position in life clearly defined is a happy contented animal. If it knows where it belongs in pack pecking order then it is happy, it does not have to try to fill a job vacancy, ie leader, if you are failing in your job, then stress free contentment shall be the order of the day.

As Jagare so rightly pointed out training a dog is a lifetimes work. Don't you just love that skitsnack word.

Welcome to the site.

John
 

stone

Well-Known Member
cgh
very interesting point here you hav made about the training side of things
i train my springers from a pup at eight weeks i expect them to fetch a tennis ball rolled along the lawn (called retreiveing) and also encourage them to play in the flower bed (early stage of hunting) so as they grow older the training becomes more intense but also fun by the age of 12-14 weeks they are walking on a lead and come to me when i call, is this not what a springer should be doing in some of its working life , so as with a tracking dog instead of a game of fetch its a game of sniff and just as they get older the trails get longer
don't know any breed of dog that does not need full time training to do its paticular speciality in life
hell if a stalker wants the best type of dog for the job then what better than a blood hound as that is what you are expecting the dog to follow
bavarian , hanover perfect for that reason alone
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
I started at 6 weeks just to be awkward :evil: :evil: :evil:



If the whole purpose of a dog was to maintain a perfect blood line we would only have wolves. Also you can work the dog on artficial bloodtrails just for the fun of it just like field trial tests.

Mark
 

cgh

New Member
very interesting comments from some people and also the usual BS from the the usual suspects, try reading Neils Sondergards latest book and you will get my drift on training or better still meet the man and here his views personally, all i was saying is the gene pool for the more specialised breeds is small and good working stock will need to be maintained for future generations to utilise and build on, but if you want a bavarian then try to use it for what it was intended and not just to pull you round the country shows.
 

MarkH

Well-Known Member
Hi cgh

Interesting comments about the gene pool. The Hannoverian breed is under stress due the the crippling high standards and requirements of a 'schweisshundfuhrer' to be able to work one. There is talk of the breed starting to come under threat.
Do you own a Bavarian or other Schweisshund. How often should a dog owner work their dog. mine are present at 100% of the deer that are shot and learn good manners while I perform the gralloch andload the carcass.
They have found about 10 deer in 4 years that disappeared into the wood/bracken and check ground where an animal has been missed. However 99.5% of their life is spent being a family pet and I suppose 'guard dog' - is this so wrong.
I have studied the German textbooks and enjoy the training and companionship of such beautiful and enjoyable dogs, but how much 'working' defines a 'working dog'?

Mark
 

stone

Well-Known Member
cgh said:
very interesting comments from some people and also the usual BS from the the usual suspects, try reading Neils Sondergards latest book and you will get my drift on training or better still meet the man and here his views personally,
this is what he wrote ;)
try page 12 bottom right paragragh starting
' tracking dogs are ''''''''''''
then goto page 137
roe deer and read that
then page 17 and on to 21
we can all quote the blind man just don't follow him across a busy road
there are other ways of getting across to the other side

,
cgh said:
but if you want a bavarian then try to use it for what it was intended and not just to pull you round the country shows.
guard dog for the beer fridge 8)
model for pink lipgloss :lol: :lol:
the list goes on talk about a versatile breed ;)
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Well i,m off to Skåne in southern Sweden to look at a litter of very Specialist pups . I promise if i buy one that i will not drag it round game fairs or ruin the gene pool for future generations. Guard dog for the beer fridge sounds like a good idea though.

cgh your post is still skitsnack.

So from a very sunny and warm Sweden. Hey Då
 

JAYB

Administrator
Site Staff
cgh why did you join this forum? why do make such inflammatory posts? Suppose you tell us what dog you use for your stalking work and how do you go about training yours. You have got peoples attention, now impress with your knowledge and skills. I should warn you though we are lucky to have some very experienced and knowledgeable people here.

You came onto this site and from your first post your attitude was wrong. No introduction, no attempt at searching for knowledge, no asking genuine questions. No, straight into deriding how stalkers use their dogs. Then you reply to posts referring to the usual BS and the usual suspects, well I am afraid to say that your tone has the ring of a certain usual group of troublemakers.

If you keep this up, your stay on this site will surely be a short one! and that is not skitsnack.

John
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
As I have already mentioned I have both books, and have had for over two years. No bull**** here, just the facts that you seem ill at ease with.

There is a large gene pool for Bavarians on the near continent, but they are only just coming into their own in the UK. I would assume its the same for Hanovarians, but I am not over familier with the breed.

I do not pull my dog round any shows, although he will be at the CLA with me as there will be no one to look after him at home, so I assume your rather stupid comment relates to everyone at the CLA who takes their dog? and that would include the good people off this site :lol: :lol:

Your comment about the usual suspects smacks of a certain Troll that we have had on this site in the past. Your name wouldnt be BRADLEY, or NEMO, or possibly BAGPUSS would it?. For someone who has only just joined this site your comments are rather confrontational, my advice to you is to read the Admin thread in the General forum ;)

Jagare, good luck with the pup, let us know how you get on, I know the gene pool for so called speacialist dogs in your part of the world and the majority of west europe is under no threat, its just that the Brits are a bit behind with these breeds, but they are in great demand by many experienced and novice stalkers alike.
 

morena

Well-Known Member
cgh
I have met Niels Sondergaard and in a group including professional dog trainers we have discussed the question of handling and very early training. We listened to him and he listened to us. Just different countries have different ideas. It was also very interesting to watch various breeds working the same trail. The Bavarian Jager by name was streets ahead of all the other breeds. If you have observed dogs closely we read 15 % on their body language they read 90 % of ours. Different breeds have varying strong points. Border collies plus crosses bite more people than other breeds put together. Why because humans don't understand they are being herded.
Could you please inform us of your experience as we are willing to learn ?
 

Roedinator

Distinguished Member
tracking dogs

cjh i can see your point about future blood lines . but i have to agree strongly with mark h . i have a 12 month old teckel that i bought for the purpose of tracking and he has followed blood trails at home and found his first deer . but he spends more time with the wife than me and is a brilliant house dog . pet . etc . my point being better to have a dog to find a wounded deer if the case arises than to have no dog at all . no different in having a dog to find wounded game etc .
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
Looks like I missed the hunt again! :evil:
I think that the human gene pool has sprouted a proper wrong un there!!!
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
He is persistant isn't he! Well he has just been booted off the Centre fire web site and The Shooting Community so it must have been our turn again. :lol:
 

Trapper

Well-Known Member
Bye eck I am gonna like this site ! I am very new to it, and already I sense jousting (that is knocking one off ones horse with a pointed stick at a rate of knots that would make yer eyes smart!!.) I think I may train my new dog to attack the perameters of the offending trussocks) , or just go for the balls!!
Trapper ;)
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
Hi Trapper,
Troll baiting is the favourite sport on this site. We know this troll very well so it doesn't take long to catch him and put his head on the wall.

Bring them on! :evil:
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Well gentlemen and ladies these trolls are gradually running out of places to hide. What the majority of them dont know is that we are now sharing information with other sites :D and so no matter how many times they change their log in name they will be tracked down and eradicated from the site.

This will take a little time, but it is working and they will find out that eventually they will be about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit, and as welcome :D

That will leave the good honest, folk with a genuine interest and understanding of the sport a chance to air their views and all help each other out.

Happy Days.
 

Wobbly Harry

Active Member
How stupid can a Person be ? Very stupid by the look of it, stirring things on a thread about tracking !
This is the 1st forum I've ever been on & it was an education to see how this Troll thing worked. It's quite beyond me why they even bother, glad to see you saw the pr*** of ! :D
 

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