Dog taking deer down

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
As stated previously......unacceptable behaviour around an ill or wounded animal,then actually videoing it is sickening and nothing to do with animal welfare.

Back to the point,that dog was creating suffering,not ending it and no tracker or handler should be creating suffering-tracking is all about ending suffering.
This is why when people don’t know what they are doing they cause suffering as per the video evidence.

When a dog/team are not trained properly this is what happens.

Well you know more than me. I couldn't tell if the boar was wounded, sick or just trying to sleep. What I do know is that sticking your head in there may end up getting it ripped. Certainly the other dogs were not going in there. Also not being able to see a clear target while the boar was moving around in the bush is not conducive to safe shot when the dogs are in a bail up.

I"m no expert but I would have kept an eye on it until my mates came. Those dogs are too small to lug it and hold it while you knifed it. I could keep cover while the other tied the dogs up and then I would have heaved a big log right into the centre of it and have my mate blast it as the bush collapsed or the boar bolted. And I would have filmed the whole episode.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
Well you know more than me. I couldn't tell if the boar was wounded, sick or just trying to sleep. What I do know is that sticking your head in there may end up getting it ripped. Certainly the other dogs were not going in there. Also not being able to see a clear target while the boar was moving around in the bush is not conducive to safe shot when the dogs are in a bail up.

I"m no expert but I would have kept an eye on it until my mates came. Those dogs are too small to lug it and hold it while you knifed it. I could keep cover while the other tied the dogs up and then I would have heaved a big log right into the centre of it and have my mate blast it as the bush collapsed or the boar bolted. And I would have filmed the whole episode.
I would think that boar video is filmed in a fenced area. Quite a few training places like that in Europe. We have 3 or 4 in Sweden but you can't use a dog here that will attack game. A dog that is two sharp is frowned on. For use on wounded game is a different matter.
 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
Thanks jer. I am done with the politics and the attitude, let's get back to some interesting comments about dog behaviour. You certainly cannot talk about a 'breed' without taking into account 'individual variation'. We have had six dachshunds over the past 11 years and they are all different, our two litter sisters are like chalk and cheese. Even when breeders develop strains via line breeding you still cannot fully predict the outcome.

Here is a clip of my Serbian friends dog that is quite interesting and amusing. The breeder of this dog is a font of knowledge, started off with English pointers in 1968 but has been breeding working dachshunds since 1980, true gent and always happy to give great advice to all.


A big boar for my friends dog Igor. at 1:26 you appreciate the size of this boar

 

mereside

Well-Known Member
Well you know more than me. I couldn't tell if the boar was wounded, sick or just trying to sleep. What I do know is that sticking your head in there may end up getting it ripped. Certainly the other dogs were not going in there. Also not being able to see a clear target while the boar was moving around in the bush is not conducive to safe shot when the dogs are in a bail up.

I"m no expert but I would have kept an eye on it until my mates came. Those dogs are too small to lug it and hold it while you knifed it. I could keep cover while the other tied the dogs up and then I would have heaved a big log right into the centre of it and have my mate blast it as the bush collapsed or the boar bolted. And I would have filmed the whole episode.
George was talking about post 169 with the injured or sick roe deer and Rob Eimes (spelling) instead of filming his HS on the leash creating more suffering and stress to the roe instead of dispatching.
A big boar for my friends dog Igor. at 1:26 you appreciate the size of this boar

Keith your video clips are from a saugatter, used to see if a dog is ready for real work and how a dog reacts to the boar before going out and getting injured. the gatter master has these boar in a large enclosure and they are experienced with dogs,as you see they are no deer and don't get stressed unlike the video of that roe deer. when you go into the gatter you and the master is locked in with your dog the dog is assessed on how it reacts with the boar, what is interesting is the boar react to the dogs individual mannerisms and sharpness. If the dog goes in straight away the boar comes at the dog in equal measure, usually there are around 5 boar of similar size, they all react the same. if the dog is calmer and unsure the boar acts the same way calm and steady this is an important training for the dog so you don't ruin a dog and it is used with differing size boar. if the dog is sharp and grabs the handler gets the dog out straight away and that's it. if the dog is unsure the dog looks to the handler for support and he goes in and gives encouragement and builds on the dogs weakness till you end on a positive, it always must end on a high, you can see in your vids the teckels are not short of passion and courage like an exercet missile it's in and takes hold, the trouble is it cannot stop a boar with the results shown. the last vid you see the handler trying to call off the teckel but it isn't listening to him as it is only interested in one thing, you can also see how calm the boar is in his earth and knows he can't be harmed but he keeps a firm eye on the bloke up the tree who sees the boar won't give him the same quarter if he gets to close. can anyone tell me how I upload vids from my phone or do i have to go through youtube to upload, i will show you how the grabbing hold is started,regards wayne
 
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mereside

Well-Known Member
Before I work out how to upload my own vids watch this one the whole way through it shows you the work of our dogs and how the end result usually ends up as the rifle can't always be used,regards wayne
second is with a dispatch shot you see the dog mark spots of blood over many km and mark beds along the way
 
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mchughcb

Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting.Both videos have edited out the dispatch. And the hold has the dog lugging onto the backside of a boar.

I find this interesting as most pig dogs I've seen hold by the ears allowing the hunter to role the pig and stab in the heart.
 

mereside

Well-Known Member
Depends again on the situation really when I tracked in Sweden my dog held the Keiler by the nose and the two just went back and forth, my last track on a 60 kilo sow Thekla held it by the back leg till I could use the knife it had made it to a fence and it was half under, on the last red knobber she held it again by the back legs when i got close it tried to move when she pulled hard he stopped moving altogether for me to use the knife, what happens is the boar once you get into sight turns to you and forgets about the dog, with the dog nipping at the back end it turns the boar for you to get in close regards Wayne
 
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jamross65

Well-Known Member
George was talking about post 169 with the injured or sick roe deer and Rob Eimes (spelling) instead of filming his HS on the leash creating more suffering and stress to the roe instead of dispatching.

Keith your video clips are from a saugatter, used to see if a dog is ready for real work and how a dog reacts to the boar before going out and getting injured. the gatter master has these boar in a large enclosure and they are experienced with dogs,as you see they are no deer and don't get stressed unlike the video of that roe deer. when you go into the gatter you and the master is locked in with your dog the dog is assessed on how it reacts with the boar, what is interesting is the boar react to the dogs individual mannerisms and sharpness. If the dog goes in straight away the boar comes at the dog in equal measure, usually there are around 5 boar of similar size, they all react the same. if the dog is calmer and unsure the boar acts the same way calm and steady this is an important training for the dog so you don't ruin a dog and it is used with differing size boar. if the dog is sharp and grabs the handler gets the dog out straight away and that's it. if the dog is unsure the dog looks to the handler for support and he goes in and gives encouragement and builds on the dogs weakness till you end on a positive, it always must end on a high, you can see in your vids the teckels are not short of passion and courage like an exercet missile it's in and takes hold, the trouble is it cannot stop a boar with the results shown. the last vid you see the handler trying to call off the teckel but it isn't listening to him as it is only interested in one thing, you can also see how calm the boar is in his earth and knows he can't be harmed but he keeps a firm eye on the bloke up the tree who sees the boar won't give him the same quarter if he gets to close. can anyone tell me how I upload vids from my phone or do i have to go through youtube to upload, i will show you how the grabbing hold is started,regards wayne
Another absolutely pathetic example of you trying to cause an issue by naming someone which serves what purpose? The guy hasn't once commented on this thread. Good luck with getting callouts from folk who can see EXACTLY what happens with the UKSHA members when they have an issue with someone. Think I'll contact the folk who told me about your members made up tracks and see if they mind if they have the story retold on here.

Come to think of it what happened the first time you came to shoot sika stags with me? Oh that's right, you wounded one and the dog tracked it unsuccessfully....a lost beast. You couldn't even suggest where you'd hit the damn thing despite the reaction from the animal! You had a BMH (sorry, BGS) with you, but left her in the car and didn't even try her on the track!!!

Keep going the pair of you, your trashing your organisation without any help whatsoever......
 

jamross65

Well-Known Member
On the issue of accessing land with no permission, the way i understand the law - it is a defense not an allowance. Similar to the farmers defense in shooting deer with a shotgun. It is not legal but if challenged you can argue your point with this legislation dependent on a number of variables.
Absolutely 100% correct!!!!
 

mereside

Well-Known Member
Another absolutely pathetic example of you trying to cause an issue by naming someone which serves what purpose? The guy hasn't once commented on this thread. Good luck with getting callouts from folk who can see EXACTLY what happens with the UKSHA members when they have an issue with someone. Think I'll contact the folk who told me about your members made up tracks and see if they mind if they have the story retold on here.

Come to think of it what happened the first time you came to shoot sika stags with me? Oh that's right, you wounded one and the dog tracked it unsuccessfully....a lost beast. You couldn't even suggest where you'd hit the damn thing despite the reaction from the animal! You had a BMH (sorry, BGS) with you, but left her in the car and didn't even try her on the track!!!

Keep going the pair of you, your trashing your organisation without any help whatsoever......
Again you come on and slag me off with total lies all because I couldn’t make your fair say whatever you like as I won’t respond to another post of yours
 

jamross65

Well-Known Member
Again you come on and slag me off with total lies all because I couldn’t make your fair say whatever you like as I won’t respond to another post of yours
What's a lie? You wounding the stag? You not trying your dog? You not having a clue where you hit it because you didn't know what the stags reaction meant?

You denying any part of that?

The point being just like you may well have learned from that incident and are now better informed in knowing what to do, so will may of the people be you choose to now criticise from an incident about 8 years ago!

I'll refresh your memory. You shot the beast across the hill with the stumps on it. It jumped up in the air on being struck and according to you at the time it landed on it's back, slid down the hillside pushing itself with it's rear legs then got up and ran off into the trees. I tried Whisky who was a year old on the track. She found the shot site that had blood. You didn't know what the sign meant with regards to where it had been hit. I suggested low brisket. She tracked the beast to a fence. As it was dark we left until until the morning. I put her on it again without success. But as you and I know what failure isn't that bad.

Ring any bells yet????

PMSL! Now come on Wyane, regarding the fair we both are mature enough to know how that played out.....never mind, UKDTR doing a sterling job with great praise being received. Cheers....LOL Bit of an own goal that move.....

Quick edit as I meant to ask if you lost your syndicate pace in the Highlands due to the number of gut shot deer being found after your visit???? Just asking, not suggesting this is a training method or anything? I'm curious.....
 
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mchughcb

Well-Known Member
Now you can see why i film every hunt.

I learn what went well and what can be improved. Regardless of the good, the bad and the ugly.

The other week people claimed i missed on a duck hunt whereas the video clearly shows each bird being hit with that damn steel shot, and requiring the second barrel.

Everybody makes mistakes and the last thing people wanting to learn and improve is to be criticized frim the sidelines.
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
I think we can safely say that we have uncovered a truly toxic organisation run by weak and nasty ittle men. I guess it is better for us all to know that now rather than after we have invited them onto our ground.
 

jimmy milnes

Well-Known Member
I'd just like to say I know Wayne and George from UKSHA and Richard from UKDTR I'd class all of them as personal friends and wouldn't hesitate to call any of them out if needed..
This thread has got a little hot under the collar, but it shouldn't distract from the fact that if needed they will all travel a great distance if need be to help..
Dogs topics always bring out a side in people that's not their norm and the written word always sounds worse than the spoken work due to not being able to add tone of voice.
Anyone needing assistance please don't let this thread put you off calling EITHER association for help as it's the possibility of an injured animal that is the issue.
 

CarlW

Well-Known Member
I'd just like to say I know Wayne and George from UKSHA and Richard from UKDTR I'd class all of them as personal friends and wouldn't hesitate to call any of them out if needed..
This thread has got a little hot under the collar, but it shouldn't distract from the fact that if needed they will all travel a great distance if need be to help..
Dogs topics always bring out a side in people that's not their norm and the written word always sounds worse than the spoken work due to not being able to add tone of voice.
Anyone needing assistance please don't let this thread put you off calling EITHER association for help as it's the possibility of an injured animal that is the issue.
Hey Jimmy,
I don't know any of these guys so I can only go on what I have witnessed in this thread. The UKSHA guys have behaved unpleasantly; the UKDTR folks have participated with dignity.
Kind regards,
Carl
 

jimmy milnes

Well-Known Member
Hey Jimmy,
I don't know any of these guys so I can only go on what I have witnessed in this thread. The UKSHA guys have behaved unpleasantly; the UKDTR folks have participated with dignity.
Kind regards,
Carl
I've not read it Carl as I can imagine most of it.. but if you think this is bad matey try gundog trials !!!
Edit.... if ya think this is bad ya should of seen the dog section 8/10 years ago when the Dutch guy was on here haha haha
 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
George was talking about post 169 with the injured or sick roe deer and Rob Eimes (spelling) instead of filming his HS on the leash creating more suffering and stress to the roe instead of dispatching.

Keith your video clips are from a saugatter, used to see if a dog is ready for real work and how a dog reacts to the boar before going out and getting injured. the gatter master has these boar in a large enclosure and they are experienced with dogs,as you see they are no deer and don't get stressed unlike the video of that roe deer. when you go into the gatter you and the master is locked in with your dog the dog is assessed on how it reacts with the boar, what is interesting is the boar react to the dogs individual mannerisms and sharpness. If the dog goes in straight away the boar comes at the dog in equal measure, usually there are around 5 boar of similar size, they all react the same. if the dog is calmer and unsure the boar acts the same way calm and steady this is an important training for the dog so you don't ruin a dog and it is used with differing size boar. if the dog is sharp and grabs the handler gets the dog out straight away and that's it. if the dog is unsure the dog looks to the handler for support and he goes in and gives encouragement and builds on the dogs weakness till you end on a positive, it always must end on a high, you can see in your vids the teckels are not short of passion and courage like an exercet missile it's in and takes hold, the trouble is it cannot stop a boar with the results shown. the last vid you see the handler trying to call off the teckel but it isn't listening to him as it is only interested in one thing, you can also see how calm the boar is in his earth and knows he can't be harmed but he keeps a firm eye on the bloke up the tree who sees the boar won't give him the same quarter if he gets to close. can anyone tell me how I upload vids from my phone or do i have to go through youtube to upload, i will show you how the grabbing hold is started,regards wayne
Yes I am fully aware of the trial. My friend has been participating in all the dachshund trials for 3 decades.
 

mereside

Well-Known Member
Yes I am fully aware of the trial. My friend has been participating in all the dachshund trials for 3 decades.
Keith I was explaining to everyone as you didn't say you just mentioned a large boar but they are different when they are wild, you could see the frustration building on the teckel in the last vid chewing up sticks, the gatter is a great way to see how a dog will react without any harm coming to a dog, regards wayne
 

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