Dog taking deer down

Wolverine

Well-Known Member
Not at all. I worked with as many arseholes in the police service as I come across regularly in the tracking world so would'nt be surprised some have it wrong....

For the last time, Sect 25 isn't in question. Entering land to end suffering is clear, it does not state 'with a firearm'. Just confirm for me in my ignorance that your absolutely exonerated from committing an offence under the Firearms Act when claiming to look for an injured deer?

I'll give my contacts a call tomorrow and confirm their position on this. After all your suggesting your also legal experts on a public forum and anyone listening could follow your advice.
Nice calling people arseholes.....
For the final time as well......
UKSHA use Section 25 with support from all organisations that are required to say we......WE......IN UKSHA.......are allowed to use Section 25 with a RIFLE.......

Nowhere have I or we stated that anyone can use Section 25 as carte blanche.

Again,having high standards helps.

Please do talk to your contacts

All the best
George
 
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Jagare

Well-Known Member
I met Stone when he hosted one of the first dogs for deer days in the UK. It was a well attended day that was funded by Stone. Stone is a modest chap who i know has taken many people stalking for fallow and muntjac. He is one of the driving forces that has promoted deer tracking to what it has become in just a few years in the UK. The Stalking world needs a few more selfless people like him.
 

jamross65

Well-Known Member
Nice calling people arseholes.....
For the final time as well......
UKSHA use Section 25 with support from all organisations that are required to say we......WE......IN UKSHA.......are allowed to use Section 25 with a RIFLE.......

Nowhere have I or we stated that anyone can use Section 25 as carte blanche.

Again,having high standards helps.

Please do talk to your contacts

All the best
George
I am very up front about what I say, nothing behind folks backs....if the cap fits and all that.

So, UKSHA have special dispensation from legislation or risk of prosecution???? Now I'm about in stitches here......

Or is it just that, some sheep offering support????
 

Wolverine

Well-Known Member
I met Stone when he hosted one of the first dogs for deer days in the UK. It was a well attended day that was funded by Stone. Stone is a modest chap who i know has taken many people stalking for fallow and muntjac. He is one of the driving forces that has promoted deer tracking to what it has become in just a few years in the UK. The Stalking world needs a few more selfless people like him.
Yup,that’s all 100% correct and he is also stating exactly what we know to be fact.
He wants his next dog to grab hold.
That has happened as he has obviously experienced situations where a dog will not stop a wounded animal with bark alone.
 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
Some people really make me laugh.....
I was sent this as screenshots via Facebook.
As said previously,people who do not know what they are doing are advising people on things that they do not know about.
This is dangerous when people will get their dogs hurt and also will not help animal suffering but cause more suffering.
“Experts” who have done nothing but leech information from certain areas without the knowledge of why they do things the way they are supposed to be done is a dangerous combination.
This is absolute folly.
There is one person that is in complete agreement with what we are saying in the following screenshots and yet again,people wish to be seen to know what they are talking about rather than actually doing the job.
When passing oneself off as an expert at anything it is helpful when you do not come up against people who really know what they are talking about-arrogance it may seem as-knowledge is actually what it is.
As the woman on the screenshots state......having dogs in fear of an animal is not conducive to ending the suffering of that animal and it will actually end in tears for the dog when faced with boar,sika,fallow or red.
I know dogs that have been injured by Muntjac or Chinese Water deer-any dog that cannot handle these animals should not be released on a chase and it should be aggressive enough to kill one of these small deer without a wound to it.
A dog which is wounded by such an animal has not been trained properly to handle such a situation.......as such,”experts” are causing suffering to both animals and their own dogs.
The video on GB Deer Dogs that I was sent was hilarious......a German Short Hair Pointer should not be circling and scared of a roebuck head.......it should be immediately latched onto that head......

Please do have a laugh at the comments.

As we have stated-people who do not know what they are talking about should not be advising others on behaviours of their dogs when that gets dogs hurt/injured.

One of UKDTR’s own members is actually openly asking how to get his dog sharp enough for the job.
Stone,if you are reading this,which I know you will be,contact me.
You are obviously knowing the way you are training a dog is not correct.
Please do give me a call.
Only happy to help you.


All the best
George
George, just so we can regain a modicum of clarity here. I am still confused by the content and intention of this particular post. I am genuinely interested in the topic but I am bamboozled by your post.
 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
George/all to show my genuine interest and perhaps lighten the mood I would appreciate thoughts on this video. Different people have different opinions as to how these dogs should have responded to this situation.

 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
Good way to get your dog killed. Mine would have barked until i did something.
You could be right but is this simply this particular teckel's character? Even though this is for 'driving' more than 'recovering', I think it is relevant to the thread. Some individual dogs with exactly the same training will respond in different ways.

Some earth dogs bay from 2 ft away, others, just a few inches and some are very much out and out 'contact dogs'

This HS seems to be struggling a little..

 

Hanechdene

Well-Known Member
Gentlemen,

Whilst watching this thread with interest, I would like to know as to which Act is being referred to with the statement of “section 25”.

If this is supposed to be referring to part of the Firearmd Act 1968, then one is referring to supplying a firearm to someone who is drunk or insane, surely this is not relevant? Or are you referring to section 20 and that of trespass with a firearm?
 

sh1kar

Well-Known Member
You could be right but is this simply this particular teckel's character? Even though this is for 'driving' more than 'recovering', I think it is relevant to the thread. Some individual dogs with exactly the same training will respond in different ways.

Some earth dogs bay from 2 ft away, others, just a few inches and some are very much out and out 'contact dogs'

This HS seems to be struggling a little..

Is that an acceptable use of a live deer to train a dog?
S
 

Wolverine

Well-Known Member
You could be right but is this simply this particular teckel's character? Even though this is for 'driving' more than 'recovering', I think it is relevant to the thread. Some individual dogs with exactly the same training will respond in different ways.

Some earth dogs bay from 2 ft away, others, just a few inches and some are very much out and out 'contact dogs'

This HS seems to be struggling a little..

Keith,
You are 100% correct.
The above HS is a UKDTR’s handlers dog.
Honestly,I find the video abhorrent.
That is not about animal welfare at all.
The dog does not know what it is doing and neither does the handler.
Any dog/team trained to do the job properly would not have videoed a dog struggling to do anything other than sit with a dead animal at its feet having killed it.
This video is proof positive of exactly what I have said all the way through this thread.
Jamross also knows the handler and knew the dog above-the whole issue here is the dog and handler don’t know what they are doing.
Rob and Origo.......
I did not post this video as I would not be negative towards others like some are negative towards UKSHA and it’s members.
As said this video is all that is required to be shown as it shows the gulf in experience and knowledge.
Arrogant perhaps Keith but as you’ve said,the HS is struggling and instead of taking videos of a dog struggling with a live animal,the handler should have concentrated on killing the animal.
In this instance what happened here with that animal was way way more suffering being created.
That animal is stressed and the dog and handler do not know what they are doing and as stated creating more animal suffering.
Really this video if given to some authorities should actually end in a prosecution for creating animal suffering.
All the best
George
 
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Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
Keith,
You are 100% correct.
The above HS is a UKDTR’s handlers dog.
Honestly,I find the video abhorrent.
That is not about animal welfare at all.
The dog does not know what it is doing and neither does the handler.
Any dog/team trained to do the job properly would not have videoed a dog struggling to do anything other than sit with a dead animal at its feet having killed it.
This video is proof positive of exactly what I have said all the way through this thread.
Jamross also knows the handler and knew the dog above-the whole issue here is the dog and handler don’t know what they are doing.
I did not post this video as I would not be negative towards others like some are negative towards UKSHA and it’s members.
As said this video is all that is required to be shown as it shows the gulf in experience and knowledge.
Arrogant perhaps Keith but as you’ve said,the HS is struggling and instead of taking videos of a dog struggling with a live animal,the handler should have concentrated on killing the animal.
All the best
George
I had absolutely no idea who the video was of/by but my question remains the same......What is the correct method to train a dog to 'pull down' and not simply 'bay'?
 

Wolverine

Well-Known Member
I would have thought so. What is the correct way to train a dog to 'pull down' and not 'bay'?
Keep thinking Keith.
Also keep thinking that the video of the HS that you showed was a professional way of behaving with an ill animal.
This shows the difference of unprofessionalism of not knowing what one should be doing to when one is taught the correct way.
Also,I find it very amusing that you sit and slag us off but yet want answers on how to train a dog to do this very job.
Go to the professional team that have shown with that video how professional they are.
All the best
George
 

Keith Edmunds

Well-Known Member
Keep thinking Keith.
Also keep thinking that the video of the HS that you showed was a professional way of behaving with an ill animal.
This shows the difference of unprofessionalism of not knowing what one should be doing to when one is taught the correct way.
Also,I find it very amusing that you sit and slag us off but yet want answers on how to train a dog to do this very job.
Go to the professional team that have shown with that video how professional they are.
All the best
George
That seems rather evasive? I will break this down into simple bullet points

1.) Keep thinking what exactly George?
2.) What IS the correct way to train a dog to 'pull down' and not simply 'hold at bay'?
3.) How have I slagged off UKSHA? I have said that you offer a good free service and that, and I quote.."I have no doubt that UKSHA members have great knowledge and experience". I have said that I find the group lacking in manners. I will now add that I find you evasive when asked a perfectly clear question.
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
I think Keith is owed a public legal video rather a long winded evasive explanation.

Could make it in 1080 HD and 60fps please?
 

sh1kar

Well-Known Member
I'd like to know the answer to 2 as well. I assume the dogs innate level of aggression/confidence will have some bearing on initial training
S
 

Wolverine

Well-Known Member
That seems rather evasive? I will break this down into simple bullet points

1.) Keep thinking what exactly George?
2.) What IS the correct way to train a dog to 'pull down' and not simply 'hold at bay'?
3.) How have I slagged off UKSHA? I have said that you offer a good free service and that, and I quote.."I have no doubt that UKSHA members have great knowledge and experience". I have said that I find the group lacking in manners. I will now add that I find you evasive when asked a perfectly clear question.
I and UKSHA members are lacking in manners because we see methods being used incorrectly and exactly as you and this thread has shown those stating they know what they are doing then want to know the correct way of doing things and within a couple of months-again,they say that they knew what they were doing all along.
All that is happening is that dogs are being ruined and a dog will get injured or possibly a handler hurt,yet it is us that is always in the wrong even after we have been proven correct time and time again in the past.
Animals deserve to be despatched quickly,efficiently and safely......when teams do not know what they are doing they should not be tracking animals.

Does anyone actually think that video is an acceptable way of behaving around an injured or ill animal ?

Is that animal welfare ?

Not any dog or breed can do this job,dogs and teams that are not properly trained are causing animal suffering......in time they will get hurt,some have been already......
 

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